Savage ejection problem even after ejector and extractor upgrade

[Eagle Six]

If you blacken that with a Sharpie, run the bolt into the action (empty) rotated the bolt to full battery and back and worth a few times. Remove the bolt, is the black gone or show no signs of contact with the barrel?

 

[DShortt]

Is this a bad sign?

That indicates that the bolt face has been contacting the barrel. Might be this one, might have been your old one.
Clean the bolt face with acetone or alcohol, let.it dry well then apply a piece of electrical tape. Trim the tape very close to the bolt face with a sharp exacto knife or sheetrock knife.
Then close the bolt with no case and note the force required to fully close the bolt. If it's tight, then there's another problem.
This would be a separate problem from your ejection issue.
If this is a pre-fit barrel then I'll just say they're great until they aren't.

 

[Eagle Six]

It's difficult to say from your photo's but it appears the extractor is a bit rough on the lip. If the bolt face is touching the barrel it could be enough along with the rough lip of the extractor, that sometimes with the Hornady brass the extractor is not fully hooking the rim. That may also part of the cause of the mar marks on the rim of the case you posted.

As @DShortt posted the rub on the bolt face, if caused by barrel contact, could be the new barrel or your 308 barrel. Use a sharpie or tape test.

How much headspace have you set. I know you said you have Go/No-Go gauges. How far off the Go gauge is your headspace setting? Just curious.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

By flat, do you mean the flat part under the extractor “hook”? Increasing the distance between the “hook” and bolt face?

I’m not sure what to call the part of the extractor that actually grams the case rim, it kinda functions like a hook so that’s what I’ll call it for now lol

No, not the extractor but the ejector pin. It has a flat machined into it. The retaining pin stops its travel at the ends of the flat. Make that flat so that the ejector can come out a bit further..about .030 or so. A little more won't hurt. This flat..

 

[DShortt]

No, not the extractor but the ejector pin. It has a flat machined into it. The retaining pin stops its travel at the ends of the flat. Make that flat so that the ejector can come out a bit further..about .030 or so. A little more won't hurt. This flat..
View attachment 1536679

I agree. However, I would definitely investigate the possibility of the bolt face/barrel contact problem as well. Even if you correct your ejection issue, that potential contact could very likely cause accuracy issues.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Got more cases with the damaged rim?
The 6.5CM isn't really that much shorter than a 308.
Poor engagement of the Extractor with the rim could be the result of a long tenon.
Facing the bolt head probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[DShortt]

Got more cases with the damaged rim?
The 6.5CM isn't really that much shorter than a 308.
Poor engagement of the Extractor with the rim could be the result of a long tenon.
Facing the bolt head probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

I'd prefer facing the barrel stub *if* there is an interference problem right now.

 

[Raider15]

so I cleaned the bolt off, rubbed the scar on the face with a marker and cycled the bolt a few times, when I pulled the bolt all of the markings from the sharpie were rubbed off

For the head spacing, it’s tight enough that a go gauge with a piece of scotch tape on the back will stop the bolt from closing but it closes perfectly with regular go gauge

 

[Raider15]

so I cleaned the bolt off, rubbed the scar on the face with a marker and cycled the bolt a few times, when I pulled the bolt all of the markings from the sharpie were rubbed off

For the head spacing, it’s tight enough that a go gauge with a piece of scotch tape on the back will stop the bolt from closing but it closes perfectly with regular go gauge

if I cycle the bolt without firing, it doesn’t rub the marker off but when I dry fire it and cycle it, it rubs off the black from the marker.

 

[DShortt]

So your barrel and bolt are making contact. That's not good.
Assuming the headspace is set to just close on your GO gauge, then the barrel stub needs to be faced off. I'd MUCH rather have that done than face the bolt off.

 

[Raider15]

So your barrel and bolt are making contact. That's not good.
Assuming the headspace is set to just close on your GO gauge, then the barrel stub needs to be faced off. I'd MUCH rather have that done than face the bolt off.

Ok, so I should probably have a gunsmith face my barrel off then? Would getting a better bolt face help this issue?

Also, an oddity but I just tested some federal gold medal match that I had laying around and it ejects perfectly. Although, these are loaded cartridges, I have yet to test them on paper and have no spent federal brass. Strange that the Hornady does not eject but federal will.

Even if I potentially have a solution for the ejection problem, it sounds like I need to fix the bolt touching the barrel regardless of the ejection issue right?

 

[One Eye Pete]

Gunsandgunsmithing has the right approach. When the extractor pulls the case from the chamber the ejector needs to keep the case ”hooked” on the extractor until it gets to the action ejection port. As you pull the bolt back to extract the case the ejector will push the case to the side with the extractor as the pivot point. The shorter the case the greater the angle (the further the extractor will push it) and the more likely the case will fall off (become unhooked) from the extractor. If you think the problem is bad with a Creedmore case I can assure you it’s worse with a 6mm BR. I went nuts with this problem on my Savage 6BR a few years ago. The first step is to do what Gunsandgunsmithing suggested. The next step is to get a better extractor, I actually machined my own and made them a bit longer and gave the claw end a curve so it fit into the case rim better. This finally solved the problem but machining those darn things was a severe pain in the butt especially for someone with my limited machinist skills. I would suggest getting a replacement extractor, Sharpshooter Supply used to make a good one I don’t know if they still do. Or try Lumley arms as K9TXS suggested in post #3. Changing the bolt head won’t solve the problem. I had the problem with both Savage ant PT&G bolt heads.

 

[Eagle Six]

If it were me I would set the headspace off the Go gauge so the bolt would close with 1 layers scotch tape easily and firmly with 2 layers. Then do some extraction test with the Hornady live rounds and fired cases to determine how that effects, or not, the extraction issue.

EDIT: I would measure the Scotch tape being used. Mine is .002" so closing easy on 1 layer is about .002" and closing with firm pressure on 2 layers would be about .003". The idea is to get the bolt face off the barrel and see if that allows the extractor to get enough purchase on the Hornady rim for more reliable extraction. If this test is successful you can probably eliminate the ejector. from the looks of the extractor I would consider replacing it for the second time. I would also want to eliminate the contact between the bolt face and the barrel.

 

[Rocketvapor]

You could examine the barrel breach face for a high spot but the factory bolt head might not be square at the face of the lugs. A thou or two on the high side should not be an issue.
No difference in case rim thickness?
I think a savage bolt head may touch the barrel without a properly headspaced case.

 

[Twdmar]

I also would suggest checking the difference in the rim and extractor groove differences in the brass and check if perhaps the brass is not able to fit the new brass as well.

 

[SBS]

When you set the headspace, you should remove the ejector. The pressure required to compress it sometimes gives one the impression there is a tight fit with the case head or go gage. Remove the ejector, place the gage rim behind the extractor, and when you let the bolt down, pull the trigger back so that you are not catching the cocking piece on the trigger sear. Obviously don't use primed ammo for this! Now you are only feeling the bolt face against the go gage. Without a round in the chamber, the bolt front can touch the back of the barrel on a lot of rifles. The proper test is to see if the bolt front is touching the back of the barrel when the go gage (or a piece of brass fired in this rifle) is in the chamber. This method also lets you have a feel for when you have insufficient headspace, keeping you from cramming it down hard into the chamber. A gage is much harder than barrel material and can put a ring in the chamber if forced down with not enough headspace. Without an ejector and the gage rim already behind the extractor, the weight of the bolt handle should cause the bolt to drop. Then you should have almost no forward movement of the bolt if you want a close headspace. The no go gage should be tested while you have this setup going and since the bolt should not close on it, never try to force it, just let the handle drop or a very light touch with one finger or thumb.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Something else I just want to clarify, so there's no confusion.
It is perfectly normal for the bolt to contact the end of the bbl on most actions, WITH AN EMPTY CHAMBER. The case or hs gage should stop it from happening when chambered though. Proper headspacing sets this gap. So yes, if the bbl is chambered too deep, the bolt could contact the bbl with a loaded chamber. As others have said, this should be corrected by taking some material off of the bbl breech end but I'm very skeptical that's your problem at all. The only thing to keep the bolt from falling all the way out of the action, forwardly, is the bolt handle if the bbl were removed. Yes, a Savage is a bit different but the principle is still the same.

 

[DShortt]

Something else I just want to clarify, so there's no confusion.
It is perfectly normal for the bolt to contact the end of the bbl on most actions, WITH AN EMPTY CHAMBER. The case or hs gage should stop it from happening when chambered though. Proper headspacing sets this gap. So yes, if the bbl is chambered too deep, the bolt could contact the bbl with a loaded chamber. As others have said, this should be corrected by taking some material off of the bbl breech end but I'm very skeptical that's your problem at all. The only thing to keep the bolt from falling all the way out of the action, forwardly, is the bolt handle if the bbl were removed. Yes, a Savage is a bit different but the principle is still the same.

It sounds like the OPs is just a bit too tight, but without examining it it's just a guess. Definitely not something I'd try to dispute without seeing it. And I agree, this is seperate from the extraction problem.

 

[Jon Leary]

Measure the rim diameter on the Federal and compare it to the Hornady.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I have heard that Savage bolt headspace can vary from bolt to bolt.
That's lug length minus face depth.
Each bolt head must be headspaced to the rifle.
A barrel change IS a new rifle.
Did the GunSmith chamber your barrel to the high end of the bolt head lug length spec or the middle?
Here's 2 308 bolt heads.
what does yours measure?


Removing metal from the barrel removes chamber length and exposes more of the case head.