Savage bolt and Sizing Brass

[1911cwp]

I have watched a few videos in my search to reload rifle cartridges better. I have not been at it long. I am using a Redding body die to bump the shoulder back and a Lee collet die to size the neck. I realize there are other ways to do this as well as just full size every time. However, this is what I want to try.
So, after sizing the brass and to check that the brass chambers easily I have removed my firing pin. The bolt doesn't seem to move any other way than what it feels to close the bolt with the firing pin in. Am I supposed to remove the ejector as well? I understand that the bolt should almost fall into place, but it does not. Any advice?

 

[Comrade Terry]

Am I supposed to remove the ejector as well?

If it's spring loaded,yes. If it's passive (e.g. Panda), no.

 

[teele1]

YES remove the ejector ejector spring and retaining pin, the front baffle, rear baffle and cocking pin. reassemble with all other parts and hook your brass under the extractor

 

[Iowa Fox]

Your choice of the Redding body die and Lee collet die are a good combination, I use that combination myself. I also use a Savage target action for some. The Savage ejector will put a fair amount of pressure on the back of the case head and its really easy to remove. I've watched the video's of bumping the shoulder until the bolt drops freely on a sized case to get the just right shoulder bump but I have never used it. I always figured that's more for the guys using custom actions. Right or wrong what I do is take about 6 pieces of brass that have been fired in the chamber your sizing and measure them using the Hornady comparator. Keep good written notes. Good sizing die lube makes a difference on consistent bump. I shoot for about .0015 to ,002 shoulder bump average, measured. One thing I have noticed is that every new Redding die that I start using takes about 50 pieces of well waxed cases to slick up and start sizing smoothly and more consistent. On some cases I use the RCBS precision mic to measure. If you put the barrel on your Savage and used a Go Gage measure that as a reference.

 

[Iowa Fox]

Ooops forgot one thing but it's a biggie. Use John Valentines instructions for setting up and using the Lee Collet die. His instructions are what really makes the collet die work like it should.

 

[Fotheringill]

Ooops forgot one thing but it's a biggie. Use John Valentines instructions for setting up and using the Lee Collet die. His instructions are what really makes the collet die work like it should.

Yes, indeed.

 

[memilanuk]

YES remove the ejector ejector spring and retaining pin, the front baffle, rear baffle and cocking pin. reassemble with all other parts and hook your brass under the extractor

^ this. I put the firing pin assembly back in, as it keeps the crossbolt in place. Otherwise, it's prone to falling out when you close the bolt and it rotates 90° to vertical - especially with the wave washer removed and no longer providing any tension up there. Things get a bit ugly trying to get the bolt back open after that... DAMHIKT

The fully stripped bolt should just about drop closed on its own, as there really isn't anything else left to provide resistance. From there, follow Alex Wheeler's YouTube videos on sizing your cases - in your situation, bumping the shoulder - for hassle-free sizing.

 

[A_Gamehog]

Maybe its just me but a case gauge easily solves this issue if you have a factory chamber. There is no need to tamper with any part of your rifle to assure the sized brass will chamber. I have one for each calibur rifle I own. The benchrest guys use their custom reamer used to build their rifle to make an exact copy to do this from an extra piece of their barrel that was trimmed . All the major suppliers have these in stock for 20-30$.
When ever I switch from one brass maker to another I use this gauge. Or in my A-15's 1 out of every 20-50 rds are checked.

here's one for sale at Midway,

L.E. Wilson has been making precision reloading tools for over 80 years. The Case Length Headspace Gauge allows reloaders to measure case length from the base of the cartridge to the shoulder, as well as the maximum case length. This process shows the reloader if ammunition is being produced within specifications.

Technical Information

Material: Steel
Features: Precision Machining
Notes:

• This is a one-piece, non-adjustable cylinder-type gauge for checking fired and resized cartridge cases for cone-to-head and overall length
• Used to compare cartridges against the minimum SAAMI chamber dimensions
• The item description will indicate if the headspace gauge is Adjustable

Instructions:

• Drop a fired case into the gauge. Take a measurement on headspace. This can be done with either a depth micrometer or caliper (Depending on if the case is sitting high or low in the gauge). If the case sticks out past maximum headspace the firearm probably has a larger than average chamber. The gauge can still be used because it is being used to determine how much resizing is required.
• Now once the initial measurement is taken, slowly dial in the full length sizer until there is a 0.001 to 0.002 drop in headspace. This will give the measurement to resize the case just below the chambers headspace in the firearm being reloaded for, giving a more accurate shot and saving brass by not causing it to be overworked.
• Once the brass has been sized, set the brass in the gauge and set the gauge on a flat surface with the head side facing down. Now look across the top of the gauge, this give the maximum and minimum for trim length.

 

[memilanuk]

Maybe its just me

It's just you

If you want ammo that will chamber in any gun out there, use a commercial case gauge (I have several) like shown. For some applications - especially ARs, in my opinion - that *is* the right answer.

I'm guessing you've never actually *used* a 'gizzy' or barrel stub or whatever the BR guys call their little widget? Typically they are just the throat, neck and shoulder - not the entire chamber. I've had a couple of them, and while they do serve a purpose it ain't what we're talking about here.

To custom fit your brass to your chamber, and/or check what your seating depth to the lands *really* is (in a bolt gun), you're going to end up stripping the bolt and doing like described above. There are various ways 'around' it, but they are half-measures at best.

 

[Richard Coody]

Different strokes for different folks.

i don't use saami specs for any resizing operation. i let the fired brass tell me what i need to do.

with the stripped bolt method of finding the lands i think most are finding the point where the bullet is entering the throat and not the lands.

 

[BillPa]

I put the firing pin assembly back in, as it keeps the crossbolt in place. Otherwise, it's prone to falling out when you close the bolt and it rotates 90° to vertical - especially with the wave washer removed and no longer providing any tension up there. Things get a bit ugly trying to get the bolt back open after that... DAMHIKT

A little tip. A single layer of tape (Scotch transparent) wrapped around the body will keep the retaining pin from falling out while you're fiddle'n around.
I discovered that trick after my first " DAMHIKT " experience.
Bill

 

[memilanuk]

That was how I originally did it... but then I had a time when the Scotch tape peeled off, and I dang near had a repeat session. Had to talk dirty to it, but I got it out

Then I realized that just putting the firing pin assembly back in, minus the cocking sleeve, accomplished the same thing, with zero risk of screwing anything up.

 

[A_Gamehog]

sc1911cwp Said:


So, after sizing the brass and to check that the brass chambers easily I have removed my firing pin. I have not been at it long (reloading)

So Monte's reading and comprehension skills might be suspect?

So if you have a SAAMI chamber (factory Savage) the case gauge was appropriate, not the disassembly of your bolt as others eluded to. Now you need parts as the detent ball and spring have flown away in your disassembly. I have many Savages and re-barrel my own, but with a "No-Turn " neck using their method is great if you have the time and skills. But a simpler method is to use the case/headspace gauge in seconds. I have a few chambers that do require me to turn the necks on the brass. With a factory chamber this is not normally needed. Since 1967 I have loaded over 100,000 rounds and refuse to spend weekends shooting paper when I can shoot furry critters with friends.

That's if my guess is correct and you have a Factory chamber?

Here are the parts you may or may not need.

Just trying to help. I ordered these a few weeks ago for my use and the Extractor spring is always gummed up.

Midwayusa.com







Savage Arms Extractor Deten...
Product #: 149221
Price Each: $2.99





Savage Arms Extractor Top L...
Product #: 107108
Price Each: $5.99





Savage Arms Extractor Sprin...
Product #: 444465
Price Each: $2.99

 

[chop house]

The Savage ejector will put a fair amount of pressure on the back of the case head and its really easy to remove

that's what i thought until a ran into an ejector retaining pin that liked being exactly where the factory put it. I decided not to struggle with it - not to say i haven't been 'easily successful' on other bolt heads.

 

[Texas10]

You don't mention what chambering you're working with, but I have five savages, 223, 22-250, 6mmBR, 6.5 CM, 308 and one I haven't yet decided what it'll be, and have tried the disassembled bolt technique described above. It's an interesting exercise, and may work in custom actions, but not so well on the average factory Savage.

From what I can tell from your post, you are looking to measure the base to shoulder dimension before and after body sizing. You, like most of us who hand load, want to work the brass as little as possible to extend case life, but you'll soon learn that you don't have to work that hard at attaining your goal.

If your fired case will chamber (with a fully assembled bolt) without a stiff bolt closure, measure it and keep one as a sample. Find one that does chamber but with a stiff bolt, measure it and keep as a max dimension sample.

If you don't already have them, get a set of gages and calipers so you can measure these dimensions. Keep good records as Iowa Fox wisely suggests, and label and keep your case samples.

After a couple of cycles on your brass you may find that your brass is coming out of the FL die with varying base to shoulder dimensions, won't hold within .002, and you'll know it's time to anneal as the neck/shoulder of your brass has become work hardened and has too much spring to it.

I hope this helps. Good shooting!

 

[1911cwp]

Thank you for all the posts. The rifle is a Savage LRP in .260 Remington. The brass is only used in the gun. All brass is once fired at this time but will use new Lapua in future. I have measured the brass after firing with a headspace gauge of a Whidden die set. I also have the Hornady gauge. I was under the impression the bolt should easily fall that is why I asked about the ejector. I understand this gauge can be used for other 308 family cartridges but I will check on this. I was under the impression the bolt should fall easily into place but since mine did not I assumed it was because I needed to move the other items. I had the bolt apart but could not get the ejector parts off the bolt head easily so I will work on that. Any other info is welcome. Thanks for not making me feel inept, yet

 

[cw308]

I can fine the headspace by using my bolt but its a Remington 700 ,Savage bolts are different , Iowa fox gave good advise by using the Go Gage ,shim the back of the case to find the exact measurement. I also F/L size every time to .001 using the standard RCBS sizing die. I also use the Redding competition shell holder set of five & the Redding Comp. seating die.I check my measurements with the RCBS Precision Mic . Works well for me.

 

[fguffey]

I have removed my firing pin. The bolt doesn't seem to move any other way than what it feels to close the bolt with the firing pin in. Am I supposed to remove the ejector as well?

I believe this is busy work, A reloader should know the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face after firing and then measuring the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. If for some reason I have a rifle I know nothing about I will remove a box of 20 sized cases and then start chambering them, in the box I have 15 cases that should not chamber and 5 that should. To speed up things I have seated bullets in the sized cases to guide the test cases in.

Again, I have one 30/06 rifle that has a chamber that .016" longer than a minimum length/full length sized case, what that means is the chamber is .002" longer than a field reject length chamber or .011" longer than a go-gage length chamber. For me? Not a problem.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

And then there is modifying a go-gage to read from go-to infinity, and for those with shop skills there is one gage, that would be a field reject length gage, problem, I do not have enough time to convince anyone it is possible. Tape and shims, that is the limit for most when it comes to skill. I am the fan of the feeler gage, the feeler gage is the first tool I place on the stand, table or bench.

F. Guffey