Savage Barrel Timing

[Toolbreaker]

Thanks for the replies. I knew this would be a no-go on a Remmy or similar, but the floating bolt head on the Savage got me to thinking that it might be possible here. The lugs measure .437", so .033" came out to less than 8% removed, hence my integrity question. After I posted originally, I got to thinking about extraction & the can of worms I might open up there. Looks like that would be a major issue if I cut it. I'll just leave it be. If it does get the best of me eventually, I can rent a reamer & just proceed with option #2 (thanks Larry).

 

[LHSmith]

Brass normally shrinks back from the chamber after firing around .001 that is not exact but close. If any of my 3 guns head space is not with in .001 the bolt won close on the case. all three of mine I can take any fired brass and chamber it in the other gun. Larry

Not understanding your reasoning. Many short range competitors have their bench guns set-up with minimum H/S ~0.001" or less and have no problems with switch barrels interchanging brass. Perhaps it's the difference between custom actions and actions incorporating jam nuts.

 

[savagedasher]

Thanks for the replies. I knew this would be a no-go on a Remmy or similar, but the floating bolt head on the Savage got me to thinking that it might be possible here. The lugs measure .437", so .033" came out to less than 8% removed, hence my integrity question. After I posted originally, I got to thinking about extraction & the can of worms I might open up there. Looks like that would be a major issue if I cut it. I'll just leave it be. If it does get the best of me eventually, I can rent a reamer & just proceed with option #2 (thanks Larry).

The barrel marking is required by the ATF. Timing a barrel to me is when you find the muzzle end of the barrel running off center to the bore when you chamber. I like my barrel pointing up. that requires a good gun smith with your action. I have a bolt face that SSS supply re face and trued the lugs .It is .009 short that will give you 56 degree movement. If that will help let me know. Larry

 

[savagedasher]

Brass normally shrinks back from the chamber after firing around .001 that is not exact but close. If any of my 3 guns head space is not with in .001 the bolt won close on the case. all three of mine I can take any fired brass and chamber it in the other gun. Larry

Not understanding your reasoning. Many short range competitors have their bench guns set-up with minimum H/S ~0.001" or less and have no problems with switch barrels interchanging brass. Perhaps it's the difference between custom actions and actions incorporating jam nuts.

With a savage we can do the same as a custom. I think most short range shooters also have their barrel clocked or time down, Savage you can set the head space the same but the timing on the barrel can be any place. Larry

 

[missed]

How is it a atf requirement? All my Shilen barrels just have a hand scratch on the breech end only. My McGowen barrels are the same way.

I'm not going to spend the time or money to have them engraved where it is really readable.

Thanks for the replies. I knew this would be a no-go on a Remmy or similar, but the floating bolt head on the Savage got me to thinking that it might be possible here. The lugs measure .437", so .033" came out to less than 8% removed, hence my integrity question. After I posted originally, I got to thinking about extraction & the can of worms I might open up there. Looks like that would be a major issue if I cut it. I'll just leave it be. If it does get the best of me eventually, I can rent a reamer & just proceed with option #2 (thanks Larry).

The barrel marking is required by the ATF. Timing a barrel to me is when you find the muzzle end of the barrel running off center to the bore when you chamber. I like my barrel pointing up. that requires a good gun smith with your action. I have a bolt face that SSS supply re face and trued the lugs .It is .009 short that will give you 56 degree movement. If that will help let me know. Larry

 

[JeffG]

I agree with re-engraving the barrel being the simplest solution, but how about a PT&G bolt head? Lug thickness and bolt face dimensions might be sightly bigger than factory spec.

 

[savagedasher]

I believe to sell barrel it must be marked. which the breach end meets the law. Now if you sell a gun with barrel it on it must be on the barrel. The Mc gowen barrels I ordered I knew what caliber I was making them and they lazier marked them every 1/3 rotation. The simple solution is
if your going to sell the barrel on the gun. go to harbor freight and get a cheap letter number set and mar it your self. Larry

 

[savagedasher]

I agree with re-engraving the barrel being the simplest solution, but how about a PT&G bolt head? Lug thickness and bolt face dimensions might be sightly bigger than factory spec.

I have several of PT&G bolt head and they are the same as Savage. What he is wanting to do is Orient the lettering when he sets the head space. Chambering or re working the bolt face is about the only answer. Larry

 

[dmoran]

This mite help 7 degrees of barrel turn is about .001 in head space on a savage. when you put a cheater wrench on the nut your taking head space away. Your pulling the barrel forward. Remington is op set. With a Savage head space can be set as low as.0001 you have 7 degree of barrel turn plus the pulling factor .I have 4 dasher all chambered the same and the brass I can use in all 4 without have to change my dies. In fact we have 7 Dashers all done the same way. Our loaded round can be used in any one of the 7 . Larry

Larry....

Get real............ Once again your falsifying and sugar coating the truth and reality......
First you write it: "With a Savage head space can be set as low as .0001", as to say its a fact and easy as putting butter on bread.
Then when you get jumped about it you say: "I don't do it, but it could be done"
Well the same could be said for any head-space on any action, but the true fact is, it is beyond your capability and also beyond 99.9% of the gunsmiths in the world.

Once again I have to say to you:
Your "sugar coating" is widely exaggerated, to say the least.... that reminds me of a used car salesman.
And can't help but feel, you have self motivated profiteering reasons for promoting Savage's, that go beyond the reality of what they actually are, for your own personal gains and profits.

I do believe you have a lot of knowledge to Savage actions and know some of the key elements to improving them. So why don't you speak the truth about Savages, and tell it like it truly is, and what they need to be improved.
They have limitations and faults, just like all brands and models. They are NOT the best thing to ever been made and they are NOT the worse either.
But your continues "sugar coating" and ramblings are complete deceptions of actuality, reality, and truth, that is counter productive as a whole, and fraudulent in context to the forum - or is how I see and view it.

 

[NorCalMikie]

The ONLY barrel I've ever recieved that was engraved was from Shilen and it was mounted on my XP 100 action.
Every other barrel I've ordered and recieved have come with NO engraving except what was marked on the chamber end of the barrel.

 

[savagedasher]

My guess 99% could do it if they pulled the barrel away from the head space gauge. Not turned the barrel toward it. Some place between zero and.001 is .0001 .Even a class 3 thread has more then.001 difference. With a nut all you have to do is tighten it and stop when you get .0001.
What kind of cars are you selling Larry

 

[dmoran]

My guess 99% could do it if they pulled the barrel away from the head space gauge. Not turned the barrel toward it. Some place between zero and.001 is .0001 .Even a class 3 thread has more then.001 difference. With a nut all you have to do is tighten it and stop when you get .0001.
What kind of cars are you selling Larry

So tell us, how do you yourself measure accurately to 0.0001" of an inch.
What measuring tools do you use?
To what ambient environment do you perform the task under?
To what tolerances will Savage guarantee from there barrel nut?
So your saying you can take 3 barrels and 3 Savage actions, and you can guarantee them all to headspace under 0.0002" (which 0.0001" happens to falls under) of each other? - Because this is in a nut shell, is what you are stating, and I am saying 99.9% of the gunsmiths in the world can't do it, and highly doubt you will find to many that will guarantee 0.001" let alone 0.0005" (which is 5-times larger then 0.0001").

Personally I do not have any calipers, micrometer, indicator, etc. that will measure to less then 0.0005" guaranteed. And I know very few facilities that can control an atmosphere to be able to measure that precisely, or have the instrumentation to do it.

Oh..... and if I sold a Chevy Citation, I would tell the buyer it should perform just like any other Citation of that model and year.
Not like you that would tell them the Citation your selling will handle like a Camaro and out HP a Corvette.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Larry, I'm finally on your side. Take 3 savage barrels and set the headspace within .0001", that will teach him! I guess if you can't do it, you would fall in the bottom 1% of incompetent people. But since 99% of people could do it, you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Concha]

Wow, This went south.

Barrel markings are aesthetic.

Trimming this, changing that, is futile. Set the headspace and shoot. The ATF will forgive you.

I did precision grinding for 13 years and .0001 is a possibility, but not practical.

 

[Nomad47]

Well, obviously Larry likes to eat shoe leather - because he is always sticking his foot in his mouth.

And reading some of his statements makes me wish I had never told anyone I shoot Savages.