savage barrel nut conversion to shouldered barrel question

[kawsam62s]

hi
on a savage model 12 using a barrel nut, conversion to a shouldered kreiger barrel, for the second time on a different gun i am out of scope adjustment and will need to put a standard base removing my 20 moa base.
the only thing changed was the barrel that now shoots 8 inchs high a 200 yds I am presently on 1 1/2 moa from the bottom on the scope to get zeroed
so what gives? I am confused as to how a shoulder barrel ends up forcing the 20 moa base to be replace with a zero moa base?
thoughts?
thx for the help.

 

[BRGUY]

Since you created an extra contact point with the barrel nut, it would be a good idea to have the shoulder on it cut square to the centerline of its threads.

It also sounds like either the shoulder of the barrel is not cut perfectly concentric with the centerline of the bore, and or the receiver face is not perfectly trued.

Everything has to be done and done right, or it will cause issues like what you are seeing.

 

[kawsam62s]

thx
i can believe the receiver is problee the issue, can the threads pull in the receiver? or simpley not trued enough, squared.

 

[BRGUY]

The threads can certainly be an issue, and cause accuracy problems if they are not cut true to the centerline of the bore.

"Problems" like this is why it is best to blue-print mass produced factory actions. This allows all contact surfaces to be cut perfectly square with all other contact surfaces, and cut true to the centerline of the bore. This also includes re-cutting the action threads to make sure they are true and square to the centerline as well.

 

[BRGUY]

Also, make sure that you go with a properly ground barrel lug, as this too can cause issues if it is not perfectly square around it's complete circumference.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

I've had both and shot both noticed no difference? Maybe some could tell but not me. The only barrel I ever owned for a Savage that was shouldered I sent to Stan and had him machine it down and thread it for a nut. I like having the ability to swap barrels around depending on my mood or the color of my socks.

 

[Lone Hunter]

I put a 6 BR Criterion on a Remage. NF 5.5x22. 20 MOA base. Had the same problem. Had to go to Burris XTR Signature Rings. Put a 0 MOA base on it and still have to use my holdover at 1000 yds. I had to use the signature rings to sight it in at 100. Don't remember if it was the 5 or 10 MOA inserts to get it zeroed at 100. Not knocking the barrel either as it shoots real good. Just can't figure the elevation deal either.
I'm with lefty trigger on the being able to swap barrels as I enjoy and really like the ideal.

 

[Stan Taylor]

I've had both and shot both noticed no difference? Maybe some could tell but not me. The only barrel I ever owned for a Savage that was shouldered I sent to Stan and had him machine it down and thread it for a nut. I like having the ability to swap barrels around depending on my mood or the color of my socks.

What would be interesting is when you went from that shouldered Barrel I threaded how much did your zero change when you reinstalled that barrel.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Barrel has lots of runout and that wasnt accounted for during chambering

 

[Lefty Trigger]

What would be interesting is when you went from that shouldered Barrel I threaded how much did your zero change when you reinstalled that barrel.

It's not a fair comparison because it went from a large shank action to a small shank action so who's to say both actions were exactly "square" but it took very little scope movement when I did get back on zero.

 

[Rat Rifle]

I'm confused on this one. Do I understand the barrel is being shouldered and the Savage nut is still being used ???

 

[kawsam62s]

I'm confused on this one. Do I understand the barrel is being shouldered and the Savage nut is still being used ???

hi
was using a nut and was converted to a shouldered barrel
thx

 

[Texas10]

hi
on a savage model 12 using a barrel nut, conversion to a shouldered kreiger barrel, for the second time on a different gun i am out of scope adjustment and will need to put a standard base removing my 20 moa base.
the only thing changed was the barrel that now shoots 8 inchs high a 200 yds I am presently on 1 1/2 moa from the bottom on the scope to get zeroed
so what gives? I am confused as to how a shoulder barrel ends up forcing the 20 moa base to be replace with a zero moa base?
thoughts?
thx for the help.

I'm certainly no expert but a couple'a questions do come to mind.

Was the receiver ever refaced or trued to remove burrs and flashing from the original manufacturing process?

How much torque did you apply when installing the barrel and did you use a thread sealant or lube?

Are you using the original recoil lug or a precision ground lug?

Can you find a couple of precision ground lugs of slightly different thickness, and use them to re-clock the barrel?

I had a similar problem recently with a model 12 small shank action. I removed a Shilen Select Match barrel in .308 Win and installed an X-Caliber in 6.5CM. Everything else the same on the rig, but could not get a zero at 100 yds as it was 2 moa high with the 20moa rail, nothing like what you're describing though. In my case the limiting factor was the scope that did not have much total elevation travel.

I suspect what you've got working against you is a unfortunate combination of stacked tolerances, maybe a particle or two of debris somewhere and limited ability to compensate with the scope. I'd take it apart again and clean, check and deburr everything and reassemble. FWIW: I remember reading an article that suggested that anything less than 90 ft lbs torque left the barrel prone to movement.

 

[kawsam62s]

I'm certainly no expert but a couple'a questions do come to mind.

Was the receiver ever refaced or trued to remove burrs and flashing from the original manufacturing process? machine shop assembled so maybe checked

How much torque did you apply when installing the barrel and did you use a thread sealant or lube? 95 foot #

Are you using the original recoil lug or a precision ground lug? precision ground

Can you find a couple of precision ground lugs of slightly different thickness, and use them to re-clock the barrel? maybe

I had a similar problem recently with a model 12 small shank action. I removed a Shilen Select Match barrel in .308 Win and installed an X-Caliber in 6.5CM. Everything else the same on the rig, but could not get a zero at 100 yds as it was 2 moa high with the 20moa rail, nothing like what you're describing though. In my case the limiting factor was the scope that did not have much total elevation travel.

I suspect what you've got working against you is a unfortunate combination of stacked tolerances, maybe a particle or two of debris somewhere and limited ability to compensate with the scope. I'd take it apart again and clean, check and deburr everything and reassemble. FWIW: I remember reading an article that suggested that anything less than 90 ft lbs torque left the barrel prone to movement.

hi see above please
thx