Savage Barrel Fouling Question

[NHgunNut]

I have two Savage's a 112 in 22-250 and a 10FP in .308 The barrels have always fouled quickly and take days of letting tetra gun cleaner to completely clean.

The .308 used to show pressure signs with factory ammo. I have put about 2,000 rounds down bore (mostly reloads) and about 1,000 rounds ago sent 50 Tubb's final bore finish down the barrel. The .308 no longer fouls a lot and cleans up easy and i have shot 5-shot 100 yard groups in the .3's.

The 22-250 I do not have nearly as many rounds through, perhaps 250-400 and I also sent 50 Tubb's final bore finish through, but it still fouls a great deal, and is very hard to clean. My question I guess is what should I do? shoot a lot and clean rarely to try to get it to break in better? hand lap the barrel a bunch? ignore it and just clean like I would a broken in gun? Just wanted some input, here are some pics, thanks!
(there is a piece of fuzz at the end of the barrel, it is not a burr)

 

[NHgunNut]

And Is this typical of savage? the 112 22-250 is kinda old, pre accutrigger, but my .308 was quite rough and is only 6-7 years old

 

[jonbearman]

I would consider a different barrel.Call Jim Briggs at northland supply,he has 3 types to choose from on pre-fit barrels.I have bought shilens and mcgowens.I am favoring the mcgowens at this time.They are under 300.00 and well worth it.They dont foul like a factory savage does.The only other question for you is have you tried other copper remover solvents? If not,I suggest you do.

 

[jonbearman]

After reviewing your bore pics,it looks like you have a really rough bore.I can see tool marks near the muzzle.You could have the muzzle cut off and recrowned but due to its age,I would get a new barrel.

 

[NHgunNut]

Yeah I have a 6mmBR shilen for my 10FP(actually it would fit both) but im too broke to buy another for the 112 at the moment. I have tryed every copper solvent I could get my hands on, and the tetra is the most brutal by far haha. Butch's bore shine came in 2nd folled by hoppes Benchrest. I am amazed my .308 shoots in the .3's and it used to look just as bad inside as the pics here show. The 22-250 can shoot VERY well sometimes, It is very picky on fouling. 5 shots to foul then it is accurate, but after 10 more shots it is downhill from there.

 

[jonbearman]

A recrown shouldnt be that much.All the guy has to do is cout off a half inch and put a sharp crown on it.I would talk to preacher about sending him the barrel and have him work his magic on it.

 

[Terry]

Try cleaning the with Witches Brew and a mop. The witches Brew is a mild abrasive. All of my guns clean easier after using it. I still use it in barrels that I think are clean. I'm often surprised.

Terry

 

[maxscm]

"Sweets" will remove that copper.

 

[MrMajestic]

KG products will take the work out of cleaning. If you can't replace it learn how many rounds before accuracy becomes unacceptable then clean. Savage barrels can be a bugger to break in but most will eventually.

 

[LR_Shooter]

I had 4 Savage rifles and all had same bore chatter issue, since you used Tubs your warranty got void, but good thing they make nice tomato stakes call Jim Brigs get yourself CBI or Shilen barrel.

 

[glo]

Get a new barrel from PacNor. It will shoot great and clean up way easy (SS barrel of course).

 

[jonbearman]

I dont think the original poster has the money right now as he clearly stated. Maybe there is somebody here willing to donate a decent shooting savage barrel that they took off their personal gun.I really wish I had my barrel back,I would have given it to him.I will keep my eyes out for a factory take off that might be better than the one you are having trouble with.

 

[NHgunNut]

Thanks for the Info and advise guys, Its not a Huge deal, just an annoyance. I have another savage in .308 (with a 6mmBR barrel on the way) that shoots great and used to have a very rough bore also. shot this group today with the .308 :

 

[5spd]

I would run JB bore paste thought them along with wipeout liquids & foam...it wont take "days" to remove the copper.
All my firearms are Savages and I do not have that issue at all after I did JBs paste. I get very little cooper in the 5 I own, 3 have stock bbls the other 2 have an ER shaw & McGowan SS bbl on them...& just very minor streaks of copper when I shoot them 100s of times. They clean right up & fast.

 

[DickE]

I've looked(worked on) a few Savage barrels with my borescope, and those tooling marks in the barrel aren't just at the crown I'm sure. They run all the way down to the chamber. Send it into Savage and they will say it's within spec.
It might sound a little drastic, but I've read this in a Precision Shooting article years ago, and have done it many times in bad coppering barrels.
Take a caliber specific brush and wrap it 1 time(ends meeting) with a cotton patch. Use 320 cloverleaf lapping compound smear it on the patch, (use a bore guide) and push it through about 10-20 times. Do not pull it back. As you push it through the lapping compound will break down. Not only will this help with the copper fouling, my experience is better accuracy to boot.

 

[tenring]

Here is a suggestion from Mickey Coleman, a well known BR gunsmith:

It could very well be that you're not cleaning often enough. Benchrest shooters clean after every match with very few exceptions. Seldom will they shoot 20 rounds without cleaning. If, however, you're at war then more shots between cleaning is expected but try cleaning more often.

Here is an easy method to get rid of copper but most people get faint when they hear it. Run two wet patches through the bore then take a brush and wrap a few wisps of 0000 steel wool around the brush starting at the handle end of the brush and wrapping toward the tip. Load the brush and steel wool with J-B Bore Paste and make ten complete passes followed by two wet patches then two dry patches.

I promise you that in almost all cases the copper will be gone and it will NOT harm the bore. Lest you think that it will ask yourself how often have you cleaned case necks with steel wool and how many case necks have you ruined by doing it. Is brass harder than barrel steel?

 

[nosualc]

I think what you're seeing is typical. The Savage factory barrels can be very rough; under a borescope they appear to have been finished with a broken drill bit. In spite of this, some shoot well or even very well (makes a guy wonder what is really important in a good barrel).

If it really shoots well, I'd leave it alone and try and deal with the cleaning issue.

After looking at my stock savage barrel with a borescope (which was very rough, easily fouled), I switched to using WipeOut foam and letting it set overnight. A few quick strokes with a nylon brush the next day and it was clean. Not only was this the least labor intensive, it worked much better for me than heavy copper solvents and lots and lots of brass brush stroking.

You could try some of the various methods to aggressively clean and maybe even smooth out the bore (JB, lapping compound, Witches Brew, etc), but I personally think those aggressive mechanical methods are easy to overdue and should be done only occasionally. Some will disagree.

If your barrel doesn't shoot well, or shoots erratically (as mine did), I wouldn't waste the time and effort. I'd get a pre-fit barrel from Jim Briggs. They're relatively cheap, and you can quickly/easily put it on yourself. I went down this same path this summer, and this is where I ultimately ended up. I wish I had done it sooner; as my scores immediately went up, the cleaning effort went way down, as did my aggravation level.

Good luck!

-nosualc

 

[BoilerUP]

[quote author=nosualc]If it really shoots well, I'd leave it alone and try and deal with the cleaning issue.[/quote]

My 12FV .223 barrel looks like HELL compared to my Criterion 6BR or 260 barrels...but it still puts 5 shots into the .4s with this crappy shot behind the trigger.

 

[NHgunNut]

Yes the tooling marks are throughoput the whole barrel. I used JB bore paste for about 30 minutes haha, and it did seem to help, and I got a .8" group at 220 yards this weekend, So I think it is helping and will just need to break in for a long time.

 

[ArtinNC]

It don't matter how you clean your barrel you NEED a bore scope and you can get a Teslong for $50 .