Savage 6.5x 284 not grouping well

[berettadave]

Does anyone have a 'suggested load' that seems to work well with the 140 gr Bergers for a Savage 6.5x284? I have been trying to work up some loads with H4831sc and have not had much luck. I started with around 46 gr and have worked up to 52.7 so far without any pressure problems. At the time I had the Bergers seated .050 off of the lands. After getting up to 52.7 gr I backed off to an even 52 gr and started seating the bullets out .005' at a time. I have now gotten to where I am jammed about .005 into the lands,no pressure issues so far)and so far none of my groups seem to be shrinking,or getting any larger for that matter). I am shooting from 200 yds and every group seems to be right at 2 1/4' or 2 1/2'. Whats funny is when I first started I tried to shoot a ladder and with about 17 shots all of them were in about 3' to 3 1/2'. It was really inconclusive to me.

The loads I am using are chrono'd at around 2925 fps. I am using lapua brass and Fed GM210 primers. The scope is a 12-42 NF BR. Maybe I just cant shoot this gun but I dont have any problems with my others. My 7mm Mag and my .270 shoot better groups at 400 yds than this one does at 200.

With all the good things I have heard with this rifle I tend to think I am doing something wrong.

Any Ideas?

thanks
David

 

[Rust]

6.5 X 284 recipes have been discussed on numerous occasions. You should try the search function or read the articles for 6.5 X 284.

But my load is a 139 Lapua Scenar, Lapua brass, CCI primer and about 48.5 gr of H4350 with the bullet just into the lands. A note on the powder charge, my chamber keeps the bullet bearing surface up past the neck/shoulder junction so the COL is well past SAAMI which leaves a bunch of extra room in the case which means I can use that much powder without going over pressure. Yours may vary.

Another decent combination was RL-22 with a Winchester primer. RL-22 does prefer the hotter Winchester primer in my rig.

But it might not be the load either. You may want to consider at least skim bedding the action if it isn't already, make sure the barrel is in fact free floated, check your mounts, rings and a different scope. Have your barrel and chamber scoped.

Pretty much any time I've ever had a rifle that just wouldn't tighten its group during load testing, it was something besides the loads.

 

[Badlands]

I have,4) 6.5-284 rifles with Savage actions, but none with a factory
barrel. I do my load development at 100 yds. for my 1,000 yd. shooting.
If I get a 3 shot clover leaf I am happy - I never bother to measure
my groups. But the load development is never over, that's the fun of it.
There's lots of info on 6.5-284 out there, but the factory barrel might be
your problem. Good luck and have fun.

 

[berettadave]

I appreciate the info. I was of the mindset that the VLD's might not shoot as good at 100 yds so thats why I was doing everything at 200. I could very well be completely wrong. I will try working up something at 100 yds and then see where I am with this.

thanks again
David

 

[BlackHawk95]

My Savage 12 F-class wouldnt shoot H4831 so ive got to Re-22 and the 139 scenar. My current load is 48gr Re-22 Fed 210M with the 139 Scenar. Use your chrono and shoot for a velocity of 2920 to 2970. mine works best when loaded in that range.

Jerid

 

[jpattersonnh]

So how many rounds down the tube? I would call Savage also.

 

[berettadave]

Thanks for the info. I may have to try another powder/bullet combo. I would like to get the bergers to shoot because I have quite a few of them, and they shoot great in EVERY other gun I own). As far as the round cound I am around 75 rounds total.

I may try and call Savage if it doesnt get any better.

thanks again
David

 

[JohnRodriguez]

I use 140gr bergers also but only use 50.6gr of H4381sc to get 2940fps out of my savage. One thing you can do is get a good torque wrench and get your bedding screw tighned before you really start swaping components or sending you rifle back.

 

[memilanuk]

FWIW... I started out using H4350, had a decent load started, then aborted and went to H4831SC because of people telling me it would shoot better, less wear n tear on the throat, etc. I don't know about the throat wear, but it wouldn't shoot for crap in my 12 F-Class 6.5-284. Went back to H4350 - 49-49.3gr behind a Berger 140gr VLD and life,at least accuracy) was good again.

YMMV,

Monte

 

[archerross]

You might also experiment with seating depth in larger increments. I was struggling a bit with the 140 gr Bergers in 6.5-284 as well. On their website,which appears to be down) they explained a 'ladder test' for seating depth where you start on the lands,0.000) and test at 0.040, 0.080, and 0.120 OFF the lands. I tested with 2 shot groups and they steadily decreased from 1 in ch to 0.7, 0.6, 0.3 inch as I increased jump. I am now printing consistent 1/2- MOA groups with 57.5 gr H1000, FED210M, Lapua brass, and 0.100 off the lands. I've only had the rifle about 4 weeks. No, it is not factory a factory barrel,26' Brux 1:8.5, heavy sporter). It is built on a trued Ruger M77 Mark II action.

 

[tunacan]

I don't buy into the theory that the VLDs or any bullet for that matter will shoot better the further out you go.

Every VLD that I have shot will shoot well at 100 yards.

I just got back from the range with my 6.5x284. I shot it yesterday with the bullet just touching the lands and it shot .325' 5 shot group.

My load was 51 gr of H4831,Not SC), Berger 140 Target VLD.

I wanted to test seating depth today and I jumped .02 into the lands to start. My groups were still under .5, but it shot much better .02 off the lands.

@ 400 yards the grouping was just under 2.5' for 5 shots.
My theory is if it shoots well at 100 yards with a low es it will shoot well at further distances

 

[edpmedic]

Don't feel bad I have had no luck with the Bergers in my Savage yet. I went back to the 142SMK's and have had no problems. That is till I Meplated a bunch of them a little too much. Was my first time using the darn tool.

Anyway back to your problem and maybe this will help. Before I would say it is your load listen to what someone said about checking the Action Screws. They are suppose to only be 24in/lbs and they tend to loosen up. I have set mine to 36in/lbs and they have not got lose yet. I also found my 100yd group tightened up just a little. nothing to make a real big difference.

I have had very good luck in my 1st Savage F-open with H-1000 powder. I use it for my 338LM also with good results. I ran out so I had to use IMR-4350 and after some trial and error, I have found 48.8grs will set me at 2890 between the temp of 58-80 degrees. We had some warm weather here and it went to 2975 on a 90 degree day. Still my SD stayed between 12 to 19fps and my SD was 5-8.
I think H-4350 will give the same results. I am running out of that powder and am getting H-4831 but not the Short Cut and will have to start over. That is till powder valley delivers my H-1000.
I have my brass trimmed to 2.165 and I try to get my bullets sorted with the same o-give. When I do I find a OAL of about 2.562 works for this rifle. Plus my brass is weighed in at the 980gn with most of it at 980.0 and 980.8gn. I was able to get 100 rounds sorted out so far. Now my 100 yd groups are touching in 3 shots. I have not been able to get the Bergers to do that yet.
The load won me Cumberland 600 yd match last month in all s relays. Yet at Reade Range I screwed up, but I really think it was the way I Meplated the bullets. I took off more them .010 on most of them thinking they were all suppose to be the same length. I didn't do to bad at 600 yds but my 1K results were disgraceful.
Now like I said this is the Second Savage due to problems with the first. I now have 311 rounds down this barrel and I am not happy with the fact I have to body size all my brass after shooting. I cannot close the bolt more then 1/4 of the way and I am not happy.
I met someone at Reade last month with the same rifle who can't even load his bullets to the lands they fall out and he also has to use the body die after shooting every time. I am waiting to get my 284 head-space gauges back to see if it is not head-spaced right. My cases are becoming .504 at the very bottom which is not good.
So what I am trying to say is don't blame your loads right away I am finding these rifles are not the PERCISION TARGET RIFLES they say they are when it comes to the Barrels and their chamber work. Yet people I know have no problems with the 308 or 6mmbr they produced. Also the Palma rifle seems to be ok I have seen a couple of them at matches also.

Marc Weinstein

 

[billmo]

I don't buy into the theory that the VLDs or any bullet for that matter will shoot better the further out you go.

Every VLD that I have shot will shoot well at 100 yards.

I just got back from the range with my 6.5x284. I shot it yesterday with the bullet just touching the lands and it shot .325' 5 shot group.

My load was 51 gr of H4831,Not SC), Berger 140 Target VLD.

I wanted to test seating depth today and I jumped .02 into the lands to start. My groups were still under .5, but it shot much better .02 off the lands.

@ 400 yards the grouping was just under 2.5' for 5 shots.
My theory is if it shoots well at 100 yards with a low es it will shoot well at further distances

Hey Man, I have to agree with your statement about any bullet shooting better at longer distances than at close range. In every single test that I have done if it will shoot at 100 yds. then it will shoot at 500 yds. also. If it won't shoot at 100 or 200 then I don't even try to stretch it out. But, some say different. Bill

 

[gunaddicted]

hey buddy i have a savage 12 f class 6.5x284norma same damn problem took it to my smith and he said shoot factory loads first then see if there is still a problem. Bought some corbon loads that had norma brass and lapua scenars 139. Went to the range and my rifle was accurate again.

I was using nosler 140 gr custom comp bullets and nosler cases fed match primers and h4350 and also h4831sc

We found that when you measure the bullet diameter above the boat tail it was not .264 inches instead it measured .26330 inches. The bullets were much smaller than my savage barrel and that it was causing instability and keyholing.

If you have the Savage F Class rifle 6.5x284norma make sure you measure the bullets you are using this might be the cause of your problems, inaccuracy, stability.

May be these rifles do not like 140 gr hpbts.

I measured the 139 lapua scenars and 142 smk's and they all measured .264 no less.

any thoughts

 

[rogn]

I keep buying Savages , I guess to see how many are good. That said because I truly believe Savage's QC department only works every other day. The first one I bought was a 12 Target BPVS I think, and it had a total of 6 major QC fubars. A ML 11 on the other hand can group at 1/2" at 200yds when stars and planets are happy. The Last one is a 7WSM package deal thats stays a tad under moa at400. Enough ranting, check bedding, recoil lug, headspace, crown, front face of action, and barrel. If a problem exists the Savage folk seem to be easy to talk to.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Make sure everything is tight, including scope rings and action screws.

Then, try jamming the bullet about .020" into the lands and you should see something happen at about 52.0 grains of H4831SC. Work up to this load, it should be about 2970 fps. if you have a 30" barrel.

Let us know how it shoots.

 

[1000yardstare]

There was a thread concerning rough Savage barrels a while back. Can`t find it now. The thread contained two groups of serial numbers for the F Class M12. Those with barrels made by Savage and those with second party barrels.

Seems that Savage used an outside contractor to produce some lots of Target barrels in 6 mm and 6.5 mm. The bores in these barrels had machining chatter for the full length and were difficult to clean.

An F Class buddy of mine up here in Ontario bought a 6.5-284 Savage F Class when they first came out two years ago. The bore was so rough he took it back to the dealer and exchanged it for another one. The second bore was equally rough so he got his money back from the dealer and has since had a custom 6.5-284 barrel installed on another action with good results.

But this problem never seemed to occur in .308 barrels in the Savage F/TR M12. Any of the Savage F/TRs that I have seen shooting in F Class practise and competition have been very accurate.

 

[Steve Blair]

I have two 12F Savages, one from the factory in 6BR, the other 6.5-284. The 6BR barrel is very good and well under ½ MOA with either Sierra 107s or Lapua 105 Scenars. It also scopes as quite smooth using my Hawkeye.

The 6.5-284 is another story. When I could not get the barrel to group reliably and it was difficult to clean, I used the borescope to assess it. It is one of the roughest barrels that I have ever seen. There are tool marks the full bore length and several scratches in the throat that look like a dull reamer was used. The barrel is sitting in my closet awaiting disposition. I have read several unfavorable anecdotes about Savage 6.5 barrels and this seems to be one of those.

I was not that enamored with the 6.5-284 anyway, so I bought a 30" McGowen .308 10" twist barrel and have been pleased with the results. Shooting either Berger or Sierra 210s, the rifle will consistently stay between .3-.5 MOA, wind allowing. The attached images show the typical range. Since I struggle to shoot smaller than .25 MOA, even with a rifle that can do it, this one is probably capable of better. It groups very well at range and the 210s handle wind well.

 

[1000yardstare]

gator, beauty groups.

Just shows that the ol` 7.62 NATO is still one of the best target cartridges.

If you want to shoot International Palma the .308 is the mandatory cartridge. The English speaking world knows a good round when they see it. (You can shoot .223 also but don`t get me going on that.)

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I have a Savage 12F also. I bought mine as just an action and stock combo. I also bought a McGowen 6.5x284 bbl at the same time. Same profile and 30" as the factory bbl. It ended up being less than $100 more than just buying the turn key factory 12F.

Maybe you should consider a replacement "drop in" barrel, from Shilen, McGowen, Brux, etc. All will sell premade drop in barrels for Savages now. Take advantage of "the barrel nut" and try swapping out the factory barrel. You can sell your factory barrel to recoup some of the $ too.

Mine likes H4831sc 50.0 grs, and the Berger 140 VLD's. It shoots the older VLD better than the newer, higher BC "long range" VLD. I don't know why, but my barrel knows the difference? Also shoots the VLD a bit better than the 142 SMK's. The Sierras shot better for me jumped 10 thou, but the Bergers shoot better for me jammed 10 thou.

You want your front and middle action screws fairly tight, and the rear action screw less so. Sorry I don't have a torque wrench, I just go by "feel".