Savage 12 LRPV in .223

[qec]

I picked one up used over the holidays. Based on the serial number I think it was made in 2008. HS Precision stock, plain (not fluted) barrel, left side port, right side bolt. It is in excellent condition. Based on a "bore brush" measurement it appears to be 1/9 twist.
It seems to shoot well with 69, 77 and 80 grain bullets (SMK's I believe) with groups under an inch at 100yds. However I can get it to group at all with 55 and 62 grain bullets. Tried lots of powders, seating depth, different phases of the moon. The groups are 3+ inches and many inches from the point of aim. I'm at a loss of what to do. Has anyone else experienced this? I also find it interesting that is shoot 80's so well. I don't have access to a longer range until the spring so perhaps the 80' bullets will loose stability on longer flights.
I have an AR i built with a 1/8 barrel and it shoots all of these bullets well
I also posted this on the Savage Shooters forum a while back in case this look familiar to someone

 

[Forum Boss]

Try jamming those lighter weight, shorter bullets 0.10" into the lands . Also check the barrel attachment, your stock attachments, and your scope attachment. A 3" spread is BIG, suggesting something is loose.

Also measure the bullet diameters on your 55 and 65 grainers and compare with the heavier bullets.

Last but not least -- let someone else shoot the gun. You may be surprised.

 

[qec]

Thanks for the comments. I will check on the 55/62 gr bullet diameter and compare. Nothing is loose. I can switch back and forth between bullets and see the differences. This has been going on since I bought it.
I will also try seating them longer but as you know the 55gr don't have a ton of length to play with.
My understanding is that the 80gr bullets generally need a faster twist rate. That does not appear to be the case at 100 years. At least not with this rifle.

 

[autoxforfun]

I have a Savage Model 12 with a 1:7 twist barrel. It shoots the heaver bullets great but it doesn't shoot the 55g at all.....in fact I see them key holing the target. I think they are over stabilized (ie spinning way to fast due to the barrel twist) to be accurate. My 1:9 shoots the lighter bullets just fine. So do you know what twist your LRPV is ?

 

[qec]

autoxforfun, I ran a cleaning rod down the barrel and measured rotation. It appears to be 1/9. I don't think they even had 1/7 back then. I don't see key holing just a shotgun pattern and poor regulation.

 

[pdog06]

If it was a 7twist it would say so on the side of the barrel where the caliber is listed. Some said it for for a 9 twist as well.

 

[autoxforfun]

autoxforfun, I ran a cleaning rod down the barrel and measured rotation. It appears to be 1/9. I don't think they even had 1/7 back then. I don't see key holing just a shotgun pattern and poor regulation.

My factory Model 12 came with a 1:7 30" barrel. It was their competition F/TR model that I think I picked up in 2016 or there about. But it doesn't sound like you have that problem. 1:9 should shoot the lighter bullets just fine. Will need to keep thinking on this one.

 

[Savagenut71]

Mine is a one in 9 with the 26 in fluted barrel. It shoots 70 Bergers into the same hole , kinda boring , and 55 , 65 and 69's. All sub quarter moa except 55's their about 1/2 in or so. Loves Winchester small primers and rem 7 1/2.

 

[pdog06]

You said you picked it up used… any idea of round count? Have you looked at the throat with a borescope?
We’re you still able to hit the lands with the 55’s?

I have an LRPV 22/250 barrel that has 1800-2000 prarie dog shooting rounds on it and the groups opened up. Not near as bad as your 55gr groups but unacceptable for my liking. So I remeasured my chamber after my last trip and was now around .050” off the lands. So I set them out .030” farther with the same powder charge and my groups tightened right back up to under 1/2”. Not sure how long it’ll last but I will keep chasing it.
I also have another 22/250 LRPV barrel in 9twist where if I try to hit the lands with a 55vmax it falls out of the end of the Oal tool…lol But I think I can still reach if I shoot heavies thru it and should shoot well. Just haven’t tried yet. Has somewhere around 3-4000 rounds Thru it.

Just a thought. Could explain why your longer 80’s will shoot and the short 55’s won’t?

Good thing is for both of us, if the barrel is about shot out a new one is reasonable and very easy to swap!

 

[qec]

This could explain things. What is the best method to ensure the bullet is into the lands? I have the necessary comparator tools so that I can keep adding 0.001 to the length just not sure how to know when I'm there.

 

[pdog06]

This could explain things. What is the best method to ensure the bullet is into the lands? I have the necessary comparator tools so that I can keep adding 0.001 to the length just not sure how to know when I'm there.

This video explains it fairly decent. Although I have found that I get much more precise results by leaving the bullet long and the Rod loose when I slide it in the chamber. This way it doesn’t push the bullet into the lands. As soon as it touches it slides the rod out to the correct depth. Then lock the rod in place with the knob and take it out and measure.
This is a tool you have to have a set way to do it and stick with it, cause it’s hard to get repeatable numbers otherwise. Not a perfect tool but will get you real close.

 

[Larryh128]

This could explain things. What is the best method to ensure the bullet is into the lands? I have the necessary comparator tools so that I can keep adding 0.001 to the length just not sure how to know when I'm there.

I would say Pdog06 is on the money, lengthened throat.

 

[RegionRat]

Well, the beauty of this Savage rifle is that when you get frustrated with debugging this barrel, you huck it and screw on a good one.
At some point your time and the ammo are valuable and the balance between keeping it and dumping it tips in favor of getting a (known) good barrel.
These are the risks we take buying used guns with unknown history. You should take the view that you are really only interested in the more permanent parts of the deal and know that the barrel may be toast.
If it won't shoot good bullets to a reasonable performance... it will make a good garden stake for your tomatoes. YMMV

 

[qec]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I will measure the lands this weekend and report back. Given the age I knew there was a likely hood that the barrel maybe short lived. Hoped otherwise. Happy with the longer bullet performance so I will likely shoot 69gr+ bullets until they will no longer shoot then replace the barrel.

 

[qec]

Well, I believe I've solved the mystery. I ordered a bore scope which came today. Apparently the barrel is simply shot out. The lands and grooves were no where near the end of the chamber. I didn't measure the gap but I would not need micrometers! I compared the Savage to my Bergara 6.5CM. Massive difference. It seems that I just got lucky with the longer bullets. Even those did not shoot as well as I hoped but at least they were sub MOA. So now I need to purchase a new barrel. I will start a new thread for that discussion.
THanks again everyone.

 

[DGP4]

Northland has hand lapped Shilen barrels for $330 you can install yourself.

Shilen Savage Prefit Barrels | Northland Shooters Supply

Northland Shooters Supply (NSS) currently stocks hand lapped match grade Shilen Savage prefit barrels (Savage Replacement Barrels) by Shilen Rifles Inc.

northlandshooterssupply.com

 

[JSH]

If it’s a large shank I have one that was set back and rechambered because of a factory chambering issue. If your interested pm me.