Savage 12 FTR and 178 HPBT - OCW Thoughts?

[skiutah02]

Purchased a new Savage 12 FTR in 308 about 6 months ago and worked up a good load for the SMK 155s (2156) over the winter. Used in a 600 yd match a few weeks ago. Did well (for me). Played around with the 178 AMAX once Midway had them in stock and liked them even better, more drop but better in the wind. Tried those at 880 yds last weekend, and they were <0.5 MOA vertical even with a nasty wind. Stumbled upon some Hornady 178 HPBts that people seem to like and tried a few quick loads based upon the 178AMAX load range. Below is the target. I like 44.4 but 45 seems promising and there are not pressure signs in the Winchester brass at that load, but the small changes in velocity tell me the max is near. What would you do? This is the first rounds tried so not much has been fiddled with, and just shot them quickly today. There are a little faster that the AMAX at the same charge, so I am thinking about switching.

 

[skiutah02]

Here is the 300 yd and 880 yd 178 AMAX load targets if interested for reference. The 880 picture has 12 of my 308 178AMAX rounds and 3 of my shooting partners 223 rounds. The ten on target hopefully can be seen well. I pulled one shot (#4) that is off the black target but on the white paper at about 6:00. The 12th is under the hand (poor wind call). The other picture is a 5 round group at 300 yds for the 178 AMAX load. I will be trying this tomorrow at my first 1000 yd F/TR match.

 

[memilanuk]

What powder charge for the 300 & 880yd groups?

 

[Keith Glasscock]

If it were me, I'd test 44.7 and 45 again, then work seating depth.

If they hold waterline with each other, I'd go between them.

Ymmv.

 

[skiutah02]

What powder charge for the 300 & 880yd groups?

44.0 gr BUT in LC '12 match prepped brass (i.e. not Winchester) 44.0 gr the LC brass gives me 2816 fps ES 12, SD 4. 44.0 gr in Win brass give 2767 fps. I have to go to 45.0 gr in Win brass to get 2802 fps. These were done at 20 oF. This is my 178 AMAX load.

 

[gaboon]

I like the 44.7 group. Play with seating depth around that charge. What powder are you using.

 

[skiutah02]

I like the 44.7 group. Play with seating depth around that charge. What powder are you using.

Fuller details of test

Virgin Winchester Brass, but necks needed straightening which I did in Redding S Die first with 0.337 bushing, then 0.331 bushing and floating carbide expander. giving 0.002" tension.
Fed 210M primer
Varget weighted on Chargemaster 1500
Seated to 2.183 base to ogive for a 0.010" jump

Temp 61, wind 12-15 mph gusting to 20-25 mph from 11-11:30.

100 yds, shot round-robin from a clean cold barrel. Used two 44.0 gr foulers prior to test.

 

[Shynloco]

If it were me, I'd test 44.7 and 45 again, then work seating depth.

If they hold waterline with each other, I'd go between them.

Ymmv.

ABSOLUTELY! Once you've found the bullet and powder combo that yields the best results with your presenting seating depth, ONLY work on changing the seating depth and nothing else. And if the targets shows vertical stringing, I'd start testing by seating the bullet .010 further away from the rifling for 3 test groups and so forth until you show an improvement in grouping. And if it were me, I'd select out the casings that don't have a concentricity issue and set them aside and not use for testing. Fixed or not, that is a variable that creates more problems than it's worth trying to fix. And that comes from plenty of experience even using Lapua brass.

 

[skiutah02]

If it were me, I'd test 44.7 and 45 again, then work seating depth.

If they hold waterline with each other, I'd go between them.

Ymmv.

Good call. Here is the retest of 44.4 44.7 and 45.0 (sorry for the used target, forgot a new one and used the ranges). I've circled the groups if it is not obvious. The next picture is two groups of 5 shots each at 44.8 gr. Now at 0.015" jump for each shot in the test since fireformed case helped give more room and case was not as "packed" and allowed the bullet to fully seat. I was getting a little resistence in the virgin brass at this load. I think I will not need to play with seating. It might be worth mentioning that this is using the now 1x fired brass (reloaded the first test's brass). Thanks for your help. Drew

 

[skiutah02]

I like the 44.7 group. Play with seating depth around that charge. What powder are you using.

Thanks! (See above) Using Varget

 

[skiutah02]

If it were me, I'd test 44.7 and 45 again, then work seating depth.

If they hold waterline with each other, I'd go between them.

Ymmv.

You might be on to something.....see above and below



ABSOLUTELY! Once you've found the bullet and powder combo that yields the best results with your presenting seating depth, ONLY work on changing the seating depth and nothing else. And if the targets shows vertical stringing, I'd start testing by seating the bullet .010 further away from the rifling for 3 test groups and so forth until you show an improvement in grouping. And if it were me, I'd select out the casings that don't have a concentricity issue and set them aside and not use for testing. Fixed or not, that is a variable that creates more problems than it's worth trying to fix. And that comes from plenty of experience even using Lapua brass.

 

[XTR]

Depending on your throat my load for that bullet when I had a shortish chamber was 44.5± or so jumping 0.010. That was with a 2.835 or so OAL. You are definitely in the right ballpark.

With that barrel and chamber I shot exactly the same load and jump with the 175SMK, 178 HPBT and the 185LRBT , kind of convenient. ;D At 200 yards I was able to get the 178s to shoot in .3s or better with regularity, and honestly I don't think I can hold any better than that on a 3/4 inch paster.

 

[skiutah02]

Depending on your throat my load for that bullet when I had a shortish chamber was 44.5± or so jumping 0.010. That was with a 2.835 or so OAL. You are definitely in the right ballpark.

With that barrel and chamber I shot exactly the same load and jump with the 175SMK, 178 HPBT and the 185LRBT , kind of convenient. ;D At 200 yards I was able to get the 178s to shoot in .3s or better with regularity, and honestly I don't think I can hold any better than that on a 3/4 inch paster.

Thanks for the response! Great to know that I am in the right range. My COAL jumping 0.015 is 2.850. I have tried others in this rifle 155, 168, 175 and 178AMAX and there is some common loads (but with different powders!) that have appeared (brass dependent) that seem to work. Mine seems to like 44.0 gr as the 155 in LC brass and Lapua (8208), 168 in FC brass (Varget), and 175 SMK (Varget) in FC all like 44.0. I am too new to this not to get excited about holding a paster at 300 yds. Three shots yes, but not all five (yet). I am dying to try Berger 185s but you cannot find them anywhere (and my wallet is happy). I do very much like this bullets potential, and I can learn the ropes a bit cheaper. Drew

 

[XTR]

I was shooting WW brass with Varget and BR2 primers.

 

[skiutah02]

I was shooting WW brass with Varget and BR2 primers.

Win Brass, Varget and F210M for this OCW test. Any experience with BR2 vs. F210M in loads?

 

[minnesotamulisha]

Thanks OP! I have the same rifle and have worked up three different loads.

1. 168 SMKs over 39-42.0 grains of IMR 4064
2. 155 Matchburners over 41-44.5 grains of Benchmark
3. 155 SMKs over 42-45.5 grains of IMR 4895

I realize that I should be testing the same bullets over different powders, but I wanted to play with something different.

I will be heading out tomorrow morning to try them out. I'll post some results this weekend.

 

[skiutah02]

Thanks OP! I have the same rifle and have worked up three different loads.

1. 168 SMKs over 39-42.0 grains of IMR 4064
2. 155 Matchburners over 41-44.5 grains of Benchmark
3. 155 SMKs over 42-45.5 grains of IMR 4895

I realize that I should be testing the same bullets over different powders, but I wanted to play with something different.

I will be heading out tomorrow morning to try them out. I'll post some results this weekend.

Good luck! If you are trying the 155 SMK Palmas, I suggest trying IMR8208XBR if you have availability.....