Saum vs WSM: battle of the obsoletes

[Adam in WI]

Looking for a mid-range rifle. Something with a little more snort than a Creed, without stepping into big league recoil. Objective is paper punching and deer out to about 500. I've got eyes on two different rifles. Both a little older; the Winchester is a New Haven 7mm WSM, and the Remington a pre-Freedom Grope 7 SAUM. Both wear 24" barrels. Both rounds abandoned by their parents. I don't shoot factory ammo either, but building a custom is a long ways off.

Which do you choose and why?
Gunfight Fri... Thursday!

 

[Nature Boy]

Is the Winnie a CRF? If so, that would be my pick

 

[DR_2297]

Believe the AMU has been playing with the 6.5 and 7 RSAUM for long range. Guess they must know something.

 

[ebb]

its a toss up

 

[INTJ]

I get the M-70. I eventually rebarrel it in 300 WSM and put it in in a McMillan Edge stock and wind up with an accurate, durable, and reliable deer rifle that weighs 7.75lbs with the scope. Like this:

 

[Adam in WI]

Is the Winnie a CRF? If so, that would be my pick

Yes.

 

[Adam in WI]

I get the M-70. I eventually rebarrel it in 300 WSM

If I could get a stainless CRF 70 in straight 284 or 6.5-284 I'd be all up in that...

I'm a huge M70 fan, but getting good ballistics with almost 10 grains less powder is intriguing.

 

[Steve morgan]

Looking for a mid-range rifle. Something with a little more snort than a Creed, without stepping into big league recoil. Objective is paper punching and deer out to about 500. I've got eyes on two different rifles. Both a little older; the Winchester is a New Haven 7mm WSM, and the Remington a pre-Freedom Grope 7 SAUM. Both wear 24" barrels. Both rounds abandoned by their parents. I don't shoot factory ammo either, but building a custom is a long ways off.

Which do you choose and why?
Gunfight Fri... Thursday!

7 wsm fine round one shot kills on.deer with mine. You can get fact. Ammo. win 140 ballistic tip is sure death on deer.

 

[Adam in WI]

M700 is stainless and about one bill cheaper, but the 70 comes with dies and way more brass than I'll probably need...

Paralysis by analysis....

 

[Hohn]

7 wsm fine round one shot kills on.deer with mine. You can get fact. Ammo. win 140 ballistic tip is sure death on deer.

140BT in 7mm or 6.5mm is strong medicine as is. Almost any cartridge capable of pushing either one to >2500fps is going to be more than enough.

 

[Hohn]

Looking for a mid-range rifle. Something with a little more snort than a Creed, without stepping into big league recoil. Objective is paper punching and deer out to about 500. I've got eyes on two different rifles. Both a little older; the Winchester is a New Haven 7mm WSM, and the Remington a pre-Freedom Grope 7 SAUM. Both wear 24" barrels. Both rounds abandoned by their parents. I don't shoot factory ammo either, but building a custom is a long ways off.

Which do you choose and why?
Gunfight Fri... Thursday!

Are you sure you want "more snort" than a Creed? Putting aside for the moment how all the cool kids just *know* there's no virtue to the 6.5crd and it's all marketing hype.

A 24" tube can give you 2800 in a 140 with RL26 and reasonable pressures. I've seen 2900 in my 26" savage, but don't want to run it that hot (to be clear-- no ejector witness on brass at this speed, but it still seems warm to me and it's LRP brass).

Deer out to 500 is absolutely manageable for a 6.5crd.


So, assuming that ship has sailed on you're set on a 7 SAUM or WSM, Midway shows 2 sources of WSM brass and 4 for SAUM.

None of them are any good except perhaps the norma-made Nosler ($$$).

Brass quality/availability is the reason the 7mm short mags haven't caught on more I suspect.

I personally insist that a cartridge must have brass available from one or more of Peterson, Lapua, Alpha Munitions, or similar premium maker (ADG belong on that list?). Or that it could be easily formed from such.

I'd steer clear of either 7mm short mag until someone makes good brass for them. There are too many other ways to get a 7mm bullet to those speeds with better brass.

 

[Adam in WI]

Are you sure you want "more snort" than a Creed?

Deer out to 500 is absolutely manageable for a 6.5crd.

Ain't that just a kick in the you know what though?

It takes a 162 going 2900+ out of the 7s to beat the 143 in the 6.5 to get less wind deflection at 500. And it's going to take 20 grains more powder to do it!

I have no beef again the 6.5. Really it's two rifles I like that are easily accessable. Chances are remote of me finding a CDL SF or a 24" M70 Sporter in the chambering.

 

[msalm]

I have messed with the 7 WSM for quite awhile and have taken deer and one bull elk with it. Works great in a 7lb sporter. Just recently put together a 7 RSAUM because I had a top quality barrel blank pre-chambered in that one laying around. Seems to shoot great too. Had a bunch of brass for it from messing with the 6.5 RSAUM awhile back. I think the RSAUM has better brass available, but for a plinking/hunting rifle that sees 1-200 rounds a year tops, what real difference will that make honestly.

Either one will do what you want, the Winchester will have 3.050” mag box which is needed with the WSM, but you can stretch the Rem mag box easy enough too. Flip a coin, really no difference IMO, and I say go for it, they are still very useful rounds.

Just last month I picked up a 70 in 7WSM here for less than $400. That one was the cheap blind mag sporter but it will likely be turned into a custom similar to what you’re talking about. I dropped the 300 WSM long ago and went to the 6.5’s and 7’s in the short action preferring 30’s on up in the full length iterations.

 

[carlsbad]

No question. Saum hands down. WSM is a good cartridge but good brass is scarce. Saum is being used a lot for FC and wildcats and more and more brass becoming available. Also, I'm a Remington fan, simple and effective--there is a reason why it is the prototype for most custom actions. Easy to upgrade/buy parts for or have modified.

--Jerry

 

[STOMP442]

6.5 Creed is plenty for deer to 500 yards. I wouldn't step up to either one and spend my money on better optics.

 

[dthomas]

ADG is making 7 saum brass. I would pick the rifle you like best since both cartridges are very simmilar.

 

[nakneker]

I have two 7 Saum I use for most of my big game hunting. Both are customs, both are very accurate. I’ve never had a problem getting good brass and the bullets selection is great. I’m using Berger 180 hunters. I think either caliber would work just fine, I went with the Saum because I was reading the 7mm post on the bulletin which led me to read more on it. I post a link just in case you wanna check it out, they cover both the Saum and the WSM.

https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/7mm/

 

[Adam in WI]

I agree on all the positives of the SAUM; efficient, good brass, sound design. In the end though, the Winchester won out again. It checked all the boxes: I won't have to buy dies, or upgrade the stock as it came in a nice older Bell and Carlson (one with checkering and some actual shape to the grip. Also included was 200 pieces of virgin Winchester brass and 40 loaded rounds. All I have left to do is give it a good cleaning and decide what I want between the Winny and the Sightron...

 

[Hohn]

Ain't that just a kick in the you know what though?

It takes a 162 going 2900+ out of the 7s to beat the 143 in the 6.5 to get less wind deflection at 500. And it's going to take 20 grains more powder to do it!

I have no beef again the 6.5. Really it's two rifles I like that are easily accessable. Chances are remote of me finding a CDL SF or a 24" M70 Sporter in the chambering.

I can see that. Are you ruling out LA versions of these guns? A 280/AI in a m70 would be nearly ideal for what you describe.

 

[Shrek]

I agree on all the positives of the SAUM; efficient, good brass, sound design. In the end though, the Winchester won out again. It checked all the boxes: I won't have to buy dies, or upgrade the stock as it came in a nice older Bell and Carlson (one with checkering and some actual shape to the grip. Also included was 200 pieces of virgin Winchester brass and 40 loaded rounds. All I have left to do is give it a good cleaning and decide what I want between the Winny and the Sightron...

That Winchester in 7mm wsm will be great. I had one for a few years and then I rebarreled it into a 6.5 saum. I like it even more as the 6.5 saum.
I love the New Haven Classic M70’s. Easy to work trigger , longer factory magazine than a Remington , flat bottom and sides on the action, integral recoil lug , and three position safety. All big pluses to me.