saturn 25-270 icl ram

[left in nevada]

looking for load data dies and, brass. new rifle to work with. it's built on an fn beligum action and has a beautiful stock. i don't think it's been shot in 20 years!if you have any imfo. or dies and brass let me know. thanks, joel

 

[jonbearman]

You might try als eclectic web pages. If you find it ,it is a whole world of gun links. I would also google wildcat cartridges. There are alot of sites who deal with obscure cartridges. Gunhoo.com

 

[wapiti25]

You should look in P. O. Ackley's books for load data. The ICL rounds were from Arnold Juenke, first in Santa Monica then moved to Sparks Nv. Arnold has passed away but he has a son that is still in the area. Does the gun have the name "Saturn" on it? Saturn was the name of Arnold's shop in Navada. His ICL cases were of the improved shape both standard as in 270 Win and the belted mags. You could fill a case with water and use this information to get a starting load to work from. Arnold's son is Vern Juenke and has a gun shop called "The Accuracy Den" PH # 775-345-0225. Good luck, and it is great to see some of the old developed rounds are popping up. I like to hear about Gibbs and others from yester-years, I have a rifle that the barrel is marked "Pfeifer rifle Co". I have read a little about Joe Pfeifer as a barrel maker in the late 40's as he was talked about in Roy Dunlap's book on gunsmithing. The rifle I have was owned by a gunsmith so I don't know who built it and there is nobody to ask.

 

[PJGunner]

This is from P.O. Ackely's book, Vol.1.
charge Powder Velocity
87 gr. bullet: 56.0 gr. IMR4350 4200 FPS
56.0 gr. IMR4064 4200 "
62.0 gr. IMR4350 3845 "
63.0 gr. 4831* 3710 " * Hodgden's Surlpus
65.0 gr. 4831* 3920 "
100 gr. bullet: 55.0 gr. IMR4350 3330 "
58.0 gr. IMR4350 3575 "
59.0 gr. IMR4350 3710 "
59.5 gr. IMR4350 3750 "
63.0 gr. 4831* 3710 "
117 gr. bullet 61.0 gr. 4831* 3450 FPS

Ackley's comments on the cartridge:

"This cartridge is made by necking down, and blowing out for fireforming in the ICL chamber. Although quite impressive claims are made for this cartridge, it doubtless has the same faults that the Ackley Improved 25-06 has. many feel these faults outweigh the good point. Like the Ackley version, it appeals to shooters who are interested in the highest velocity possible from a rimless .25 calibre cartridge, without too much consideration for other factors."
This from pages 346 and 347 of Ackley's HANDBOOK FOR SHOOTERS AND RELOADERS.

Considering the copyright date of 1962, my thoughts are that the 4831 powder would almost have to be Hodgden's milsurp powder, and not the current version of either 4831. Some people really pushed the envelope when working with those early wildcat rounds so be very careful with that data.
Paul B.