Salt bathing (nitriding) a Garand receiver

[butchlambert]

I shot one PPC barrel and sent it to a guy on the BR.Com forum. Said he wanted to check it with his gunsmith students. It mysteriously disappeared. It had 5000 rounds on it and still shooting well. I normally change ppc barrels every 900-1000 rounds. I noticed no change in accuracy. It did need about .4grn more powder to maintain the velocity.
Butch

 

[Huckleberry]

Talked to Joel. The Garand receiver and bolt can not be salt bath nitrided.

 

[Robert]

Talked to Joel. The Garand receiver and bolt can not be salt bath nitrided.

Huckleberry ,

At the specifications you passed earlier, I do not see any treatment who could improve Garand parts....except TiN, CrN or TriboBond PV D coatings...

I still have not found the CoF of Melonite QPQ (Quench-Polish-Quench) treatment?.
R.G.C.

 

[Huckleberry]

Robert,
I was going to nitride the bolt and receiver for rust resistance. Also to match the barrel finish.

 

[Robert]

Robert,
The reduced fricton is a byproduct of the process. The process fills in pores in the metals and if i didnt see how much FPS you do really gain every time i wouldn't believe it myself.

bobby

Bobby,

I understand that, but from what Coefficient of Friction to what Coefficient of Friction?.

As long as a true figure cannot be found oe given somewhere, I will not find any superiority of the nitriding process, be it QPQ, ionic or else over a purpose friction-reduction hardening coating. Those gives at least 10 point more in HRC and 0,2 and even 0,1 CoF, can be made over many materials, even on a Garand bolt to return to the original demand, and is 100% corrosion protective.

My point FWIW
Robert

 

[Huckleberry]

Robert,
You seem to be pretty well informed on different coatings. Is there a coating that I can apply to the receiver and bolt to reduce friction without excessive buildup? On the other hand, some decrease in slop may be good on an old battle rifle.

Thanks

 

[Robert]

Robert,
You seem to be pretty well informed on different coatings. Is there a coating that I can apply to the receiver and bolt to reduce friction without excessive buildup? On the other hand, some decrease in slop may be good on an old battle rifle.

Thanks

As I said before, There is several coatings who are wear resistant, from 2300 to 2700HV (about 75 to 85 Rockwell "C" Scale, as compared to the 1150HV some 62HRC of the Tufnite-Durferit QPQ process (Meloite for you in USA, bt oriiginally created by Degussa in Germany).

The most adapted is MeDLC (Metal diamond-Like Coating), as made worldwide by IonBond under the name TriboBond 41. There are others making this coating, very likely most of the large thermochemical treatments groups, but I only know this one in USA. It is black in colour, give 100% corrosion protection, and has a coefficient of friction almost equivalent to PTFE (Teflon), at 0,1 .
Coat is in the microns range (1,5 to 2 um) .00008 of an inch.

If you want something more exotic, but I do not think a venerable Garand deserves that guise, you can use TiN PVD coating, matt gold in colour, or CrN,Silver colour. You can see those coatings on cutting tools, but their friction coefficient is less interesting, at 0,3, probably however superior to QPQ, which is only a steel nitriding treatment improving the qualities, but it still remains steel...
R.G.C.

 

[butchlambert]

Robert,
You have given us some info, but what about cost. I priced a type of PVD for a titanium receivered rifle and the price was just terrible-$750. I don't need that much protection or lubricity.
The following is from Joel Kendrick:

Thanks, Butch
They can't do the inside of a barrel with this process.
Sort of like PVD coating, but it is a coating where as Salt Bath Nitriding is a Thermo chemical reaction changes the outer layer of the metal to form a compound layer of Nitrogen & Carbon which is a non metallic surface. This micro thin layer is no longer considered steel.

Thanks,
Joel


If it can't do the inside of the barrel, it is virtually useless to me.
Butch

 

[Robert]

Robert,
You have given us some info, but what about cost. I priced a type of PVD for a titanium receivered rifle and the price was just terrible-$750. I don't need that much protection or lubricity.
The following is from Joel Kendrick:

Thanks, Butch
They can't do the inside of a barrel with this process.
Sort of like PVD coating, but it is a coating where as Salt Bath Nitriding is a Thermo chemical reaction changes the outer layer of the metal to form a compound layer of Nitrogen & Carbon which is a non metallic surface. This micro thin layer is no longer considered steel.

Thanks,
Joel


If it can't do the inside of the barrel, it is virtually useless to me.
Butch

Butch,
I never mentioned brrels, althouh I may have an opinion about the process involving a mechanical Polishing inbetween Quenchings (Q.P.Q).

True enough PVD is not for tight long bores.

I only replied to the initial Huckleberry"s question about Receivers and Bolts.

Now, about prices. I believe the firm you asked for quotes did not wanted the work of making a single part, and they overcharged to not be burdened..
It happens that I have some ideas on prices or treatments of parts in US, and they are comparable, if not cheaper, to what exists elsewhere..

The INCH manufacturers in Australia are able to offer almost individual PVD coatings in TiN, CrN and TiAlN finishes in several options, see http://www.actionclear.com.au/ at a cost about 1/20 of what you mention..

But I still have not found the CoF of Melonited steel..Maybe your contact Joel can pass the information??

R.G.C

 

[butchlambert]

Robert,We are looking for a process primarily to extend the life of an excellent shooting target barrel. I have experienced what QPQ can do for me in that regard. I looked into the PVD for a rifle that had several different metals in the build and I wanted them to look the same.
Butch

 

[blawton]

Bobby,

I understand that, but from what Coefficient of Friction to what Coefficient of Friction?.

As long as a true figure cannot be found oe given somewhere, I will not find any superiority of the nitriding process, be it QPQ, ionic or else over a purpose friction-reduction hardening coating. Those gives at least 10 point more in HRC and 0,2 and even 0,1 CoF, can be made over many materials, even on a Garand bolt to return to the original demand, and is 100% corrosion protective.

My point FWIW
Robert

Robert,
Sorry for the delay. I havent been on much lately. The CoF for a SS lapped barrel is going to be around the .35-.40 area. After nitriding it goes down to .09-.14 range. I should have some more data for this in a few days.

bobby

 

[Robert]

Robert,
Sorry for the delay. I havent been on much lately. The CoF for a SS lapped barrel is going to be around the .35-.40 area. After nitriding it goes down to .09-.14 range. I should have some more data for this in a few days.

bobby
[/quote]


Bobby,

Thanks for this accurate (up to the 1/10 of a point!) information, very helpful.

This is the kind of documentation the firms proceeding to this treatment should have pride of communicating...

Yours

R.G.C.