Salt bath annealing question

[Murray Brook]

I thought the melting point for salt was 1470*F or 800*C.

Can't be. At 520C it is a liquid, a very hot one. On my salt container it warns not to heat above 590C.

 

[CA_Shooter]

The salt will not be removed from the cases after dunking them in water

 

[Straightshooter1]

I thought the melting point for salt was 1470*F or 800*C.

My understanding is that the salt compound used for annealing is a mixture of sodium nitrite and potassium nitrate, which has a lower melting point than sodium chloride that you're thinking of.

 

[TrapperBR549]

My understanding it that the salt compound used for annealing is a mixture of sodium nitrite and potassium nitrate, which has a lower melting point than sodium chloride that you're thinking of.

Sounds like what I put in summer sausage.

 

[Murray Brook]

The salt will not be removed from the cases after dunking them in water

Straight from the salt bath and into a water pail. In my case all salt is removed, 100%.

 

[CA_Shooter]

Straight from the salt bath and into a water pail. In my case all salt is removed, 100%.

If you place a bunch of salt in water, and then place an object in that water, then there will be salt residue on the object after removing it from the water whether or not you see it or don't see it.

The salt 100% does NOT come off the brass. In addition, the water is now full of the salt.

It must be cleaned to remove the salt. And the salt is a chemical, which you probably do not want to add to your cartridge combustion

I know of a scenario where someone did the following:

1. Salt bath annealed
2. Removed the brass and placed it in a stainless steel tumbler with water, dawn soap, and lemishine
3. After an hour, they opened it up and out came red, hot, burning steam

The salt is still on the brass after its dunked in the water and removed

 

[SeabeeKen]

Here is a link to extensive testing on salt bath annealing done by the makers of the AMP press.

Salt Bath Annealing - Does It Work? | Learn More | AMP

View the latest articles from AMP Annealing. Get tips and tricks from our R&D. Here we upload articles to provide your the best possible information on innovations in the annealing process.

www.ampannealing.com

 

[Murray Brook]

If you place a bunch of salt in water, and then place an object in that water, then there will be salt residue on the object after removing it from the water whether or not you see it or don't see it.

The salt 100% does NOT come off the brass. In addition, the water is now full of the salt.

It must be cleaned to remove the salt. And the salt is a chemical, which you probably do not want to add to your cartridge combustion

I know of a scenario where someone did the following:

1. Salt bath annealed
2. Removed the brass and placed it in a stainless steel tumbler with water, dawn soap, and lemishine
3. After an hour, they opened it up and out came red, hot, burning steam

The salt is still on the brass after its dunked in the water and removed

I can't tell you about someone else's exoperiences, only mine. I have been doing this for quite a while now (salt bath) and after placing in water straight out of the process the salt is gone. I then pour the brass into my sink, shake and placed to dry on a cookie sheet in the oven at 170F for appx 30 min . All is good. As far as coming out of the tumbler red hot, unless you witnessed this your self, I don't believe this for a second. By the way do you salt bath anneal. Just asking

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Once you get an AMP, everything else just seems too hard. No naked flames, no nasty smells, no dangerous liquid salt and perfectly annealed cases.

 

[Murray Brook]

I would love to have an AMP but my budget just doesn't allow it.

 

[Ccrider]

Here is a link to extensive testing on salt bath annealing done by the makers of the AMP press.

Salt Bath Annealing - Does It Work? | Learn More | AMP

View the latest articles from AMP Annealing. Get tips and tricks from our R&D. Here we upload articles to provide your the best possible information on innovations in the annealing process.

www.ampannealing.com

I read this a long time ago and just finished reading it again. My LabRadar did not agree with Amp’s findings regarding salt bath annealing.

My es numbers were as consistent salt bathing as with my Amp. The differences are:
1. that I am not exposing myself with the risk of being accidentally burned by a 550 degrees C liquid every time I anneal; and
2. the Amp is faster.

 

[Murray Brook]

@Ccrider Most certainly the hot liquid poses a real challenge. Because of this I am thinking of going a different route, but none the less SB works for me.

 

[Ccrider]

@Ccrider Most certainly the hot liquid poses a real challenge. Because of this I am thinking of going a different route, but none the less SB works for me.

My findings also. And I did not mention, but most importantly, my targets are no better with the Amp than they were with salt bathing.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I would love to have an AMP but my budget just doesn't allow it.

I can understand that. The next best is the self build induction annealer that is mentioned in he forum. I'm sure someone can point you to it. It doesn't look that hard to construct and the parts are fairly cheap. The molten salt thing frights the hell out of me!

 

[mikecr]

Given all the complexities and limitations of induction annealing, I don't see how dip annealing can be described as complicated or difficult.
You turn on the pot, when the salt is liquid you dip each case to the level desired. Then you clean the cases.
I don't see dipping as anymore dangerous than flame annealing.
And there is no way to be too hot, or too cold, with the salt bath in a Lee pot. Any cheap probe/temp meter shows you what is being applied.

As far as timing, when you're heating the brass at both the inside AND outside surfaces at the same time, it takes no longer than hand dipping takes to stress relieve.

I've been dip annealing forever with lead. That's a little more complicated than salt.
But the temperature, timing, cleaning, and result are the same.
When I want to stress relieve necks, or necks and shoulders, or case to mid-body, I just do it.
Nothing complicated to program or buy.

I am not interested in what fully anneals cases best. That's NEVER what I want.

 

[Walt Krafft]

I hope everybody that salt pot aneals, does it outside. Just like casting lead, the fumes are not good.

 

[mikecr]

I limit a lead bath to ~950F, which is below fuming.
It's my understand that salt should be kept below 1,200F.
I don't think a Lee pot can take a media that high.

With lead dip, I first dip cases in Mobil1, and let them drain off overnight for a super thin layer.
This keeps lead from sticking to cases, and there is a small amount of smoke from that layer.
Given that, I dip on a bench in my garage.

I don't do it all that frequently as there is no benefit for me to do so -with my minimal sizings.
But it's good for sure to do a deep dip with new cases before 1st fire forming.
Even with a lot of reforming/improving, I never lose a case. This just works really well.
When pre-seating forces fight me to match, I dip necks.
When shoulder bumping fights me, I dip through shoulders.
I watch this & more with every case I reload, so I know what I have & what I'm achieving there.
When I dip, I dip the whole batch.
Every now & then still, and usually pretty early on, a case throws a shot or zaps my ES.. A witch.
I watch for this and just toss it.

I honestly believe that there is nothing to be paranoid about with dip annealing.
Don't knock it over onto your lap,, don't spill your beer into it,, hold an awareness you would have with any other method.
And If I thought flame or induction methods were better for me I would simply go that route.
Just not convinced that applying the wrong temperatures gets correct and consistent annealing.
With dipping, I'm actually watching the temperature of the media, and the brass. There is no timing needed to reach it, or to prevent excess. There is no excess in potential.
I also like that I can dip to any level with any case by eye, as I do. No do-dads, re-setups, or recalculations.

 

[searcher]

Such as? I use an ugly annealer. I suppose I could attempt to make an induction annealer, Or get an Annie, but I won’t fork over $1500 for an AMP.

I have been under self-imposed restrictions regarding buying new gadgets, rifles and gear for a long time. A few weeks ago, I broke rules and bought the AMP annealer and a new Henderson motorized trimmer to better get me through a huge batch of varmint brass. The old annealer I have used for several years is a Giraud, a fine machine once I modified it a bit - but is not the machine one wants for the likes of .17 Hornet, etc., which I now shoot quite a bit of. Anyone who uses a flame to anneal knows of the frustrations on getting the flame, dwell time and torch position EXACLY the same every time, especially when one changes out to different calibers of brass all the time. And getting the brass to the same temp each time is a very imperfect situation. I broke out the AMP, watched videos, weight-sorted my brass into five batches of around 300 pieces each (.4 grain separation, as this was Lake City with a spread of just over 2 grains for the batch), as AMP says .2 grain separation is about the most for "extreme accuracy"). That made sense to me as I have seen so many pieces turn red when most did not when using the flame method- clearly, even with flame method, the cases react quite differently based on weight. The AMP machine did give me five separate codes when the first "median" weight case of each lot was destroyed to analyze it with their program. And so I went on to anneal the all the brass yesterday. Unlike the flame annealer setup, there was not one single neck that appeared to have gotten too hot, all cases annealed very uniformly - and the process went about the same pace as when using my "automated" annealer. I will say that I had buyer's remorse paying that much for an annealer before I used it. I still do - but not nearly as much. As I turned the necks on the brass as well, the big test will be when it comes time to seating bullets. With the flame annealer, there was always some unacceptable variation in the cases when it came to seating force that went beyond what should have been there with the minute neck thickness variation. - presumably the variation in annealing. In the next few days, I'll be loading some of that brass up to see what the level of improvement is in respect to seating force. Based on what I have witnessed in the annealing process, I have high hopes for big improvement. We will see.

 

[Ccrider]

I have been under self-imposed restrictions regarding buying new gadgets, rifles and gear for a long time. A few weeks ago, I broke rules and bought the AMP annealer and a new Henderson motorized trimmer to better get me through a huge batch of varmint brass. The old annealer I have used for several years is a Giraud, a fine machine once I modified it a bit - but is not the machine one wants for the likes of .17 Hornet, etc., which I now shoot quite a bit of. Anyone who uses a flame to anneal knows of the frustrations on getting the flame, dwell time and torch position EXACLY the same every time, especially when one changes out to different calibers of brass all the time. And getting the brass to the same temp each time is a very imperfect situation. I broke out the AMP, watched videos, weight-sorted my brass into five batches of around 300 pieces each (.4 grain separation, as this was Lake City with a spread of just over 2 grains for the batch), as AMP says .2 grain separation is about the most for "extreme accuracy"). That made sense to me as I have seen so many pieces turn red when most did not when using the flame method- clearly, even with flame method, the cases react quite differently based on weight. The AMP machine did give me five separate codes when the first "median" weight case of each lot was destroyed to analyze it with their program. And so I went on to anneal the all the brass yesterday. Unlike the flame annealer setup, there was not one single neck that appeared to have gotten too hot, all cases annealed very uniformly - and the process went about the same pace as when using my "automated" annealer. I will say that I had buyer's remorse paying that much for an annealer before I used it. I still do - but not nearly as much. As I turned the necks on the brass as well, the big test will be when it comes time to seating bullets. With the flame annealer, there was always some unacceptable variation in the cases when it came to seating force that went beyond what should have been there with the minute neck thickness variation. - presumably the variation in annealing. In the next few days, I'll be loading some of that brass up to see what the level of improvement is in respect to seating force. Based on what I have witnessed in the annealing process, I have high hopes for big improvement. We will see.

Don’t worry. If you place a value on your time, before long you will feel like you owe the Amp people some money.

 

[searcher]

Don’t worry. If you place a value on your time, before long you will feel like you owe the Amp people some money.

Good to hear.