Safety & Long Loading

[Retired shooter]

The advantage of "Long Loading" is to be able to put more powder in the case , to increase velocity of the round , while not increasing the "Spike" pressure beyond "Safe" limits . Many TR Shooters tend to "Load Long" , while having their bullet seated anywhere from .005 to a average of .020 of Touch of the Leade in the chamber .Or the point where the bullet makes contact with the beginning of the actual barrel .

D -4297

Thank you for your reply and explanation..
So with that being said how do the TR guys know for a fact that their chosen charge is safe. What or where do they get their starting charge to start the over pressure investigation. ?

I agree the individual that has never reloaded should find some assistance with the process. Dad and I reloaded thousands of 12ga. rounds yrs. ago. My son pulled me back into reloading for rifle and pistol.

Darn Kids are sure expensive.

Thank you.

 

[mike mccormick]

If you are referring to 223/5.56 , the Sierra manual does have load data for longer than mag length on the 80s and 90s

 

[Retired shooter]

We have shot the 223/556 round , and will shoot it at the local range. I posted the question in the general reloading section. At this time I am researching information about the 6 ARC. To avoid any confusion I will move to the 6MM area.

Thank you.

 

[Retired shooter]

Will have to check out a Sierra manual, as I am looking at the 6MM Sierra's also.
Thank you Mike.

 

[divingin]

For whatever reason he blew up a AR15, that was his story, I just repeated it. Just dont want anyone getting hurt, no matter what kind or type of mistake gets made.

I understand. I'd prefer that guns don't get destroyed as well. But it does happen, and figuring out why is an important part of keeping it from happening again.

I saw a guy I know who did the same thing; I suspect he forgot to switch powder when going from loading 9mm to 223 (he swears he changed powder, and it was double charge; I still don't see that being possible.)

Another guy managed to fire a 300BO through a 5.56 AR. Swore that it was in a bag of reloads, and he was going to sue the company that supplied the reloads. Long story short, that changed several times, the last iteration being that he was picking up live discarded rounds and loading magazines at home with them. The day of the event, he simply pulled out a mag and started firing - briefly. I still don't know how you can be so inattentive as to mistake a 30 cal bullet for a 223, but there you go.

 

[mikecr]

Just fall back to the golden rule: Work Up

Reloading manuals are no good for this.
QuickLoad accounts for capacity change with seating out, and higher starting pressure with nearing/touching lands.
I have no rule of thumb for seated bearing, that always works.
It actually comes down to sized grip length against seated bearing that provides sufficient friction to hold the bullet until firing. A 1/4" or less of sized grip length (onto bearing) has worked well for me with smaller hunting cartridges/low recoil. Crimping can take care of recoil seating otherwise.

 

[Retired shooter]

QuickLoad accounts for capacity change with seating out, and higher starting pressure with nearing/touching lands.

Mikecr
I am not familiar with quick load, but you are saying it will provide load data to account for the extra case volume when seating the bullet closer to the lands. Is that correct. Does quickload have all the calibers listed..
Dont mean to play 50 questions, I am just not familiar, so I ask.

Thank you Sir
Have a great Easter Weekend.

 

[Retired shooter]

QuickLoad accounts for capacity change with seating out, and higher starting pressure with nearing/touching lands.

Mikecr
I am not familiar with quick load, but you are saying it will provide load data to account for the extra case volume when seating the bullet closer to the lands. Is that correct. Does quickload have all the calibers listed..
Dont mean to play 50 questions, I am just not familiar, so I ask.

Thank you Sir
Have a great Easter Weekend.

Good evening Gentlemen
So after a brief review of the Quick load program,it appears to me that it will be extremely time consuming to imput all the data. Might be good for cold winters night.

From all of you ( Older Guys ) how many of you utilize the program, and what is your opinions of it.
Price of it dont bother me, I am just wondering how much use my son and I will get out of it.

Thank you !

 

[Homerange]

Another apparently excellent reloading tool is GRT.
I grabbed a link to it when mentioned a few weeks back however not got to do anything with it as yet.

[Rocket2MyLuna]

www.grtools.de

 

[Ray123]

I never jam any bullet into the lands, anymore...just out varmint hunting ...it dumps power all over the inside of the action and jams a bullet in the barrel, if you have to unload without firing, shutting down a casual afternoon family fun ground squirrel hunt, I can never get that lost time back with those who are gone...a life lesson...but many times I load them close like .006" to .020" off.

 

[mikecr]

Mikecr
I am not familiar with quick load, but you are saying it will provide load data to account for the extra case volume when seating the bullet closer to the lands. Is that correct. Does quickload have all the calibers listed..

Yes & Yes

So after a brief review of the Quick load program,it appears to me that it will be extremely time consuming to imput all the data. Might be good for cold winters night.

You input what you actually have, and later fine calibrate it to your powder/barrel.
Many of those inputs represent adjustments unaccounted for in manuals. Right?
Well it is accounted for in software, so that's the best place to head for your answer.

 

[Retired shooter]

Thank you.!

 

[Webster]

Gentlemen

Looking for some information from you experienced ( RSGs) Real Smart Guys.

Have loaded mag length pistol and rifle rounds before, have the loading manuals, and always attempt to stay on the safe side of pressures. Now my first attempt at long loading rifle rounds to single feed , my question is, any information in any of the loading manuals in regards to powder charge ? Where does one find such information, I am limited to 52,000 lbs in a gas gun, I am getting older ( not old) and would like to shoot a few more years with my son, so therefore I ask questions.

When you dont know what you dont know, you get in trouble.

Thanks.

Don't understand why you want to load rounds so long they have to be single loaded by hand. Your making things difficult. When I started reloading I probably made OAL what is in the manual. I load now 0.010" off the lands. I do single load since a 6BR doesn't work well in the magazine. Used for GH hunting. Some people have the theory that the bearing surface has to be at least half way down the neck. I think this is an old wives tale. My 6BRA with 55 gr Noslers is only about 0.050" in the neck with 0.10" jump and it shoots OK. I think it's the 6BRA that has an extremly short neck and it's concidered an accurate cartridge.

 

[Retired shooter]

"Don't understand why you want to load rounds so long they have to be single loaded by hand. Your making things difficult. "

Webster. Thank you for your opinion Sir.
For many years I have loaded to mag length, it was always. "Good Enough " for the task at hand.
My son started ELR shooting, and I spot for him. 99 per cent of the guys that do this type of shooting are always using the larger caliber rounds. Larger caliber meaning , Larger $$$$ spent. My son being single, with a good job has more cash flow than his happily married (50 plus) years, retired , limited cash flow dad.

So with that said I am attempting ELR type shooting with a smaller caliber round,and asking the little round to attempt what the bigger rounds are doing. My theory is I am looking for any and all ways to obtain the most effective way to help a small bullet accomplish a large task . During the racing years always looked for the smallest things, or ways to make even the smallest gain ,always looked at what was not said in the rule book.

So if I am making things difficult, maybe it is because maybe "That's good enough " is not.

This forum is great for finding the answers to questions, and or problems, that all of us run into. Thank you to all who provide the answers.

Thank you.

 

[Homerange]

You keep on your path RS however I think your long loading might be constrained by the leade length in your rifle/s. I totally get what you're trying to do and if we consider some of the RUM's their engineers extended leades to work in effect like part of an extended combustion chamber......a virtual bigger capacity case.
However for some that needed to push them even harder throat erosion became a severe issue and chaps like Nathan Foster in NZ designed a new and nearly equivalent 7mm magnum cartridge to work around this issue. He called it the 7mm Practical as what it could do with a lesser charge was quite impressive. It's right up there with the 7mm STW, in fact a little faster.
You can read about this and many other excellent articles here:

7mm Practical

 

[divingin]

Some people have the theory that the bearing surface has to be at least half way down the neck. I think this is an old wives tale. My 6BRA with 55 gr Noslers is only about 0.050" in the neck with 0.10" jump and it shoots OK. I think it's the 6BRA that has an extremly short neck and it's concidered an accurate cartridge.

My current 6BR barrel has 5900 rounds through it as of this weekend. Loading Columns at touch has about .15 to .2" in the neck. Fired a couple of sub-tenth inch groups on Saturday (5 shot groups; 50 rounds fired.) Not so much on Sunday though; I think the calm air and t-shirt temps threw me off my game or something.

 

[Homerange]

My current 6BR barrel has 5900 rounds through it as of this weekend. Loading Columns at touch has about .15 to .2" in the neck. Fired a couple of sub-tenth inch groups on Saturday (5 shot groups; 50 rounds fired.) Not so much on Sunday though; I think the calm air and t-shirt temps threw me off my game or something.

Could be a clue in that……thermals.
I guess they could be a thing in precision shooting.

 

[Ccrider]

There is no such thing as max load.

Though perhaps unintended, this is a careless, and possibly dangerous and misleading statement.

 

[ebb]

For sure unintended, Read post 13. Published Max loads are over max in some guns with stacked tolerances, and I don't think that super tight match barrels and longer barrels do anything to make it any better. If you are depending on a book or computer to pick a load out the air to load you need to be way under the max published load.