Russian Primers

[MGYSGT]

Confused. I just ordered some primers. I read so many reiviews, including a little just posted at Gun Projects on this site, that I am totally confused. Are the Wolf and Tula primers made by the same folks? Are the KVB556M just regular primers with thicker cups, for use with AR's, or are they really magnum primers? Are the KVB223 primers the ones with soft cups? And lastly, are they serviceable for use in 30 BR and 6BR?

 

[cmillard]

i am not sure what the cup thicknesses are, but i use the small rifle mags in my 6BR and i will never use another primer. they are so consistent! just to show how "tough" these primers are, they do not flatten easily like prvious primers i have used

 

[NCFrank]

Tula & Wolf primers are produced at same factory. Powder Valley Inc (PVI) carries Tula & Wolf, best prices. Contact Brian.

Further info available on the 223 cal page of this site. Scroll down to the Primer section.

The following is from Robert Whitley's 6mmAR Info Page on primer use for AR's.

Primers That Are Appropriate for AR-15 Use

The design of an AR-15 makes it more susceptible to piercing primers or a slam fire than some other rifles. The use of an improper primer in an AR-15 is almost an invitation for a primer piercing and other related primer problems. It is essential that primers are used that can withstand the rigors of AR-15 shooting. Some of the primers that we have found are appropriate for shooting in AR-15's are listed below. For accuracy work we recommend CCI BR-4 primers, Rem 7.5 BR primers, Wolf Small Rifle Magnum primers (these are not really a magnum primers and Wolf kind of mislabeled these only becuase the cup metal makes it tough enough for use in magnums and AR-15's too) and the older Winchester Small Rifle Primers (the silver plated ones that came in the white boxes/sleeves only). In the magnum primer category of AR-15 appropriate primers: CCI #41, CCI #450, Wolf Small Rifle .223 primer (not to be confused with the inappropriate Wolf standard small rifle primers noted below or Wolf the small rifle magnum primer noted above).

The small rifle primers that we considered as not generally appropriate for use in AR-15's include CCI #400 primers, Fed 205 primers, Fed 205M primers, Rem 6.5 primers and the newer Winchester Small Rifle Primers (brass colored that come in blue boxes/sleeves), and the Wolf Standard Small Rifle primers (a copper colored primers).

 

[spclark]

KVB223 = small rifle primer, soft cups;
KVB223M = same size & primer charge BUT with a tougher cup to better resist cratering / piercing;
KVB556M = small rifle MAGNUM charge primer with the tougher cup also.

(Maybe something gets lost in translation from Russian to American English? Otherwise I can't understand why the marketing wizards don't make the differences clear in their product descriptions.)

I've used the original Murom Plant "Russian" KVB223 primers for years & they do tend to crater in AR's. They might be fine in a bolt gun, particularly when the bolt has been bushed to better fit the FP.

The tougher cupped KVB223M primer (I use Wolf brand currently) is every bit as good a primer as the softer cupped product in terms of SD's and groups in my gas guns. My plan is to use them with Lapua Palma brass for Palma events this year too.

 

[1shot]

SPCLARK is right, and I’ll 2nd that by saying that I shoot a 6mmAR on an AR platform (among others) and I’m not shooting that cartridge lightly to just get a “little” edge on the .223 rifles. I drive the 6mm 90 and 105 gr. bullets as hard as they will go safely and accurately. The ONLY primer that I use with 100% success is the Wolf SR-mag. The same thing goes for my 600-1K rifles. (L-R Wolf) Yes, I have tried all the rest, but the proof is in the numbers on the chronograph and the amount of vertical at 1,000 yds. They are consistent beyond comparison to any other primer except the old silver cupped W-W in several different calibers, and they will never let you down when it’s “game time”.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

 

[markm87]

Wolf Small Rifle Magnum primers (these are not really a magnum primers and Wolf kind of mislabeled these only becuase the cup metal makes it tough enough for use in magnums and AR-15's too)

Yeah! Many of us found out the hard way that the more recent batch of WOLF SRMs won't reliably ignite H335... or the surplus equivalent... WC844 or whatever it is.

Fortunately that seems to be the only problematic powder for these primers... other ball powders work.. and of course the stick variants are fine with them.

 

[artbosco]

... are they serviceable for use in 30 BR and 6BR?

As someone has already said, I too have found the Russian primers not very reliable. I'd stick with the tried and true: Remington, Winchester and Federal primers.

 

[2506]

Just make sure you seat them really good. Make sure the primer cup as well as the anvil seats flush with the bottom of the primer pocket. This has been the problem with many having misfire problems. It is not the primers fault it is the loaders fault. I was one of these. Once I realized that it took a little more pressure to feel the cup hit bottom after you feel the anvil hit bottom with my Lee hand primer I have had NO PROBLEMS. Wolf primers are very consistent and I get GREAT ACCURACY out of them. One other reason that some have had misfires is because of the thicker primer cup and their weapon having too light a striker spring. They just don't have enough power to set them off sometimes.

 

[jonbearman]

Wc844 is equivalant to h335.You are correct.

 

[lazyeiger]

Anyone have any info or experience with the Tula or Wolf large rifle primers? I see Wolf have both standard KVB7 and magnum KVB7M listed but Tula also have a 7.62 NATO LR primer? anyone have a recomendation for .308 F T/R type shooting?

Jon

 

[spclark]

I've used both the "Murom Plant" and later Wolf-branded KVB7 primers with great results. Pay close attention to what other's have said about firm seating with them, otherwise they'll behave badly.

Going by what the small rifle primer specs are on Wolf / Tula brand, my guess is that 7.62 NATO LR has a stiffer cup, maybe with a magnum charge. I haven't tried any though, the regular LR seem to work for my needs just fine.

 

[2506]

I have used the standard Wolf LR primers in both my 30X47 HBR rifle and my 30-30AI Contender pistol. I get as good or better accuracy out of both with the Wolf primers. It is hard to tell with the 30X47 HBR on any better accuracy with the Wolf primers than others because it shoots EVERYTHING really well. I have never had a rifle like this one. You just fill the case up with 42 grs of IMR 4895 and stick a 125 to 168 gr bullet in the case drop it in the rifle and they all go in about the same hole. ;D