Russian Primers

[JohnO]

I still continue to get cratered or pierced primers whenever I load for the 6BR. The load was 29 grains of N140 with a Hornady 87 grain bullet. Lapua brass. The same problem occurs when I shoot Varget. I was advised by a shooter friend to get the bolt bushed at the firing pin hole. I was wondering if any others have experienced similar problems with Russian primers. These were standard primers, not magnum primers.
Thanks, John

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

What happens when you use a different primer like Federal or CCI for example?

 

[Forum Boss]

#1 Are you sure the Russian primers are seating flush or slightly below. Some folks have noted that the primer cups are on the big side and therefore take more effort to seat properly.

That said, if you have excess clearance around your firing pin you can get primer cratering even with a moderate load.

I would be surprised to see a pierced primer with 29.0 of N140 and Hornady 87s unless you've got them seated really far down in the case.

 

[TJUrban]

Using the standard,non-magnum) wolf primers I got light cratering on what I think is a really softball load in 6-6.5 x 47Lapua,didn't have a chrono handy last weekend).

Also, weirdly, using H-4895 and 85g bullets, felt as if I had a micro-second "hang-fire" before each went off - like I could actually feel the firing pin hit before the rifle recoiled??

And, out of twenty or so rounds fired, had one mis-fire.

So, more testing required. Maybe they work better in shorter or smaller cases.

Tim

 

[Travelor]

Are your primers copper colored or silver colored? I also have the standard small rifle Russian primers which are copper colored primers and they are SOFT.

I have since been told to get the small rifle magnum Russian primers as they are tougher.

 

[JohnO]

These are the standard Russian primers - copper colored. When I use CCI 450 primers, I don't get this effect. I have used the same Russian primers with a .223 AR15 with no bad issues, so perhaps it is a seating depth problem. I will look into that.
Thanks, John

 

[TJUrban]

Follow-up on Russian primers: went out yesterday and fired same loads, and hotter, alternating between the Fed 205M, and CCI BR.

All had pretty much identical, modest "cratering" as seen on the Wolf primes last weekend. The primers were not "blanked" or flattened at all.

So, will purchase some of the Wolf small rifle magnum and see how they respond.

Tim

 

[Raidman]

pierced primers are often caused by a weak firing pin spring.

 

[TJUrban]

Follow up 2: used the Wolf copper-colored standard primers at the Thurmont benchrest rifle match yesterday in my 6PPC heavy varmint rifle with a fairly hot load of VV N-133.

No "hang-fire" feel with the shorter PPC cases, and I shot a clean match,all tens, some x's) which was a nice result for me and I felt very competitive.

Tim

 

[GermanS1]

The non-magnum Russian primers,copper colored) can be expected to extrude and blank with most of the loads reloaders use in cartridges like the .223 and 6BR. The magnum version has the same type and amount of primer compound but a thicker cup. This is not idle speculation on my part, I am well acquainted with all the specifications for all of the primers produced at that plant, including many that are not commercially available.
The copper colored primer should be treated by a reloader as similar to a Remington 6 1/2 meaning suitable for .22 Hornet, .218 Bee and standard pressure loads in .222. If you have a relatively modern rifle and are an active handloader, use the magnum version. The "magnum" labeling is really an error by the original distributor PMC which has been carried forward by Wolf - they are not more powerful than standard.

 

[GermanS1]

GaM, the Large Rifle Magnum primers are the same as the standard Large Rifle except for cup thickness. Use either one as the standards will not blank.

 

[Bonden]

GermanS1 wrote:
"The non-magnum Russian primers,copper colored) can be expected to extrude and blank with most of the loads reloaders use in cartridges like the .223 and 6BR. The magnum version has the same type and amount of primer compound but a thicker cup. This is not idle speculation on my part, I am well acquainted with all the specifications for all of the primers produced at that plant, including many that are not commercially available."

and

"...the Large Rifle Magnum primers have a bit more compound in the same cup as the standard Large Rifle. The difference is not as pronounced as in some other brands."

---------------
Thanks for all the good primer info.

Getting ready to order a large,for me) quantity of Large Rifle primers for loading .308, 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R and want to be very clear on a particular point - Do the Wolf LR,standard & magnum) primers have the thicker/harder cup that will prevent slamfire in military-pattern rifles with free-floating firing pins?

Planning to order enough that buying another brand that specifies "military" or otherwise is known to be for this purpose would add significantly to the cost over Wolf brand.

Any insight or recommendations will be appreciated.

 

[GermanS1]

Bonden, I revised my prior post a bit because there has been a change since that was written. The Russian primers as imported today,by Wolf) and the last batches of PMC are the same in terms of compound in the large standard and magnum. Like the small ones, the only difference is the cup thickness. For your application I would recommend the magnums, but I don't think the standard ones would create any risk of a slamfire either.

 

[Bonden]

Thanks much, GermanS1. I'll go with the Wolf LR magnums for the added security, such as it is. Like you say, either standard or mag would would probably work safely. It seems the larger risk may lie in a primer left 'high', not fully seated in the pocket, when loading.

Did read of a slamfire with 7.62x39 in an SKS with American Eagle brand factory ammo which is said to have,had) the softer primers. But that's just a story I read and it could have easily been caused by a firing pin sticking from fouling, or a combo of a sticky pin and slightly softer primers.

When I got my first rifle with a floating pin, and cycled a few rounds through it by hand just to check for smooth function, it was quite a surprise to see that it dimpled each primer upon chambering - didn’t really do much more with it until searching out the info that its normal.

 

[RDavies]

I have a box of 1000 small rifle magnum primers,what the box says), but these are all copper coloured!! All my other SRMs were steel coloured as you said. Did someone switch the packaging or are some SRM primers copper as well?

 

[Plugger]

The standard will work in a 30BR but you will have to go with the magnum with the 6BR. I shoot both cartridges and have seen the results the same even with a BAT action.

 

[Sendero_man]

off topic sorry...

Plugger I would like those DTACS still.

please PM me or email and let me know what you want

thanks