Runout Help Again

[jpistolero02]

For the life of me I can't figure out what I am doing wrong. When checking the runout on my once fired and reloaded 6.5X47 rounds, I am getting anywhere from .003"-.007" runout. Checking the neck and shoulders prior to reloading they have just about zero runout. I am full length sizing with a forster die and the expander ball removed. After sizing the brass, I run a Sinclair expander mandrel through them to make everything uniform. I am using a Forster Co-Ax press and Forster Benchrest seater. So far the rifle shoots great so maybe it doesn't even matter, but I am being anal and trying to make everything as close to perfect as I can. The furthest I have shot to this point has been 430 yards and 5 shots groups were going in about 2.25". This is Remington 700 action that has been rebarreled with a Krieger barrel. Thanks for the help!

 

[amlevin]

If you're getting the results you want, I'd be inclined to not worry too much.

What method are you using to measure runout? Some tools measure from different points. One that indexes on the case head may show runout induced by the bolt face not being square or the bolt being held unevenly in the locking lugs. Perhaps the material in the cases is "flowing" differently when fired and springing back unevenly?

Just my $0.02

 

[Heavies]

I am interested in the replies that come forth in your thread.
I too am have weird run out problems. I don't use equipment as good as what you have. However, sometimes I get dead nuts zero and other times .004.

All shoot very well though.

 

[Leaddog]

Is your zero runout measurement before or after resizing and if after, just before bullet seating after using the expanding mandrel? Do you neck turn? What bullets are you using? Type of brass?

For me, any runout more than .0005 is unacceptable for match ammo. That's one half of one thousandth.

 

[BoydAllen]

Have you gauged your brass after expanding it? What kind of press do you use?

 

[Bob3700]

You might want to try a couple of things.

First, put an o-ring under your sizing die and one under your die with the expander mandrel. That will let the dies float and not want to pull anything off center.

Then I would borrow another sizing die and see if the runout is still there.

Bob

 

[jpistolero02]

I am using Lapua brass and Berger 130 VLD bullets. I am using the Sinclair concentricity gauge measuring between the ogive and case mouth. Some loaded rounds won't budge the gauge needle, but I would say that is only 1 out of 5. I am checking the case necks and shoulders after sizing so it doesn't appear anything during that process is causing the issues. I don't have a neck turner so the cases are the way they come other than being fired. I am hand chamfering the cases so maybe I am doing something very wrong there? I am using a Lyman VLD chamfer tool with only a couple of light turns.

 

[BoydAllen]

Check your cases after expanding the necks, and tell me what you find.

 

[amlevin]

As I read, you are not neck turning. You measure case runout before loading at the outside of the neck, right? Then you measure bullet runout between Ogive and neck. Have you checked runout of a finished round on the outside of the neck as you did to begin with? Has the runout there changed?

Unless neck thickness is uniform it would seem to me that you could get variations like you describe.

 

[jpistolero02]

Looks they are fine after expanding. I will check some necks after reloading. Sounds like I might need to purchase a neck turner. Now for which darn brand.

 

[Cigarcop]

Have you checked to see if its the same few pieces that are giving the runout by marking them.....

 

[rocketron]

redding makes a vld seating stem for there dies. does forster make one for there dies also? maybe the bullet don't fit the seater correctly. i would take the die apart and check the fit.

 

[Leaddog]

Looks they are fine after expanding. I will check some necks after reloading. Sounds like I might need to purchase a neck turner. Now for which darn brand.

Try another bullet seater. Do you have a Wilson with an arbor press? How about a Redding? I think this may be where your problem is if everything else is checking out ok.

 

[amlevin]

Looks they are fine after expanding. I will check some necks after reloading. Sounds like I might need to purchase a neck turner. Now for which darn brand.

Why not Sinclair?

 

[Elkbane]

JP,
Uneven chamfering could cause the bullet "get started" off square. The Lyman VLD tool doesn't have anything to preven you from turning an angle on the chamfer. Take a look at the length of the chamfer as you rotate a case - are they even all the way around?

I found my seating (with the Forster die with Berger 130gr VLD in 6.5MM) got quite a bit better after I started paying careful attention to the case mouth. I lightly chamfer with a 45 degree tool to just knock off the trimmimg flash, then use a K&M VLD chamfer tool. It has a pin that extends through the flash hole to prevent you from making uneven cuts, and a depth stop to make all of the cuts the same depth.

http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PRE&Product_Code=KMTMRL&Category_Code=CASE_MTH_REAM_KM

I gave up on the Lyman VLD tool - just coudln't control it.....
Elkbane

 

[LIUNA]

You may have a problem that I had, I was working up a load for a new barrel and, and after firing about 40 rounds over 2 days, I was confused no shooting consistency 2 shots out of 4 in the same hole, one went to hell, then 4 shots 2 went to hell, so I sat down at my bench, and started thinking and checking and checking all my loading equipment, and after going through everything for the 4th time. I took out the shell holder and with a tooth brush once again cleaned it. but noticed something peculiar, I had a shiny spot on my shell holder surface about 3/16 in diameter, so I raised the ram up with the shell holder to see how it looked against the bottom of the die, and it was obvious that was my problem, the clearance was uneven. So I changed the shell holders and ran all my brass through a 2nd time and could feel the resistance of the die straightening the cases.
It was very obvious, my problem solved.

 

[snert]

Please, no offense meant at here...just a different take. If you are getting that little runout, and your groups seem pretty reasonable, maybe you could save the cash spent on extra tools that might get you .001 runout and use it for bullets and brass, then SHOOT alot. it is MORE fun, and you will get better! (Not sayin youre bad mind you, just you'll get better) Hmm, save money, have more fun, be less stressed and be less anal than your buddies and shoot better too. That is priceless.

regards,
Snert

 

[dig]

Silly question, do you have the die lock nut on that Forster tight? If over tight the die will set at an angle, I know made this mistake way back when! A small "o" ring decaping pin and polish the decaping pin will help as well and as mention even on the Forster brush the plate, I have had poweder and brass work in there and I am a neat freak with my bench.

 

[jpistolero02]

I usually do tighten that lock nut down. I will try backing off a bit to see if that helps. Thanks for all the responses!