Roll Sizing: Before or After Shoulder Bump?

[Papa Charlie]

I am Roll Sizing my high power competition brass for the first time. My brass has been fired several times and the bolt felt a bit stiffer than normal when ejecting in the last match. In previous lots, it got to the dreaded Clicker stage requiring me to replace it. I have a few questions for those who use a roll sizer.

1) Do you roll size your brass every time when prepping your brass? I do all other sizing functions every time to ensure I get consistency and wonder if there is any ill effect by adding this step to my regime?

2) Do you roll size before shoulder bump and neck sizing? Metal when moved has to go somewhere, I am concerned that the roll sizing will move the metal up the case and change the shoulder bump if done afterwards.

3) Have you experienced any other thing in the roll sizing process that you would care to share?

Thanks for you help.

 

[JEFFPPC]

What is roll sizing, I have never heard that term. Do you mean using a ring die? If you do I used it before bumping the shoulder.

 

[SD guy]

No experience w Roll sizing. If it were me I suppose I would sample 3 to 5 cases & measure head space before & after roll sizing to quantify Growth. Then proceed accordingly. look forward to seeing how this works out for folks.

 

[SD guy]

Think he is talking about a sizing option for the base that may have been just been commercially offered this year.

 

[Rank Amateur]

I tried both and didn’t notice a difference on target, so for convenience, I roll-sized clicker cases after full-length sizing (and cleaning off case lube). Also, I only roll-sized every 3rd firing which was the number of firings my 284 required for the clickers to come back.

 

[Papa Charlie]

What is roll sizing, I have never heard that term. Do you mean using a ring die? If you do I used it before bumping the shoulder.

Here is a good YouTube video of the commercial RollSizer, its operation and what it accomplishes.

My Roll Sizer is home built and essentially functions and performs the same task.

 

[shoot4fun]

I am Roll Sizing my high power competition brass for the first time. My brass has been fired several times and the bolt felt a bit stiffer than normal when ejecting in the last match. In previous lots, it got to the dreaded Clicker stage requiring me to replace it. I have a few questions for those who use a roll sizer.

1) Do you roll size your brass every time when prepping your brass? I do all other sizing functions every time to ensure I get consistency and wonder if there is any ill effect by adding this step to my regime?

2) Do you roll size before shoulder bump and neck sizing? Metal when moved has to go somewhere, I am concerned that the roll sizing will move the metal up the case and change the shoulder bump if done afterwards.

3) Have you experienced any other thing in the roll sizing process that you would care to share?

Thanks for you help.

When I shot USPSA matches I roll sized first. I would think that would be the best path for rifle brass too.
When one full length sizes bottleneck rifle brass with the die set so it doesn't bump the shoulder you will usually see some difference in the datum length (longer).
I believe I would measure the datum before roll size to get an accurate number for shoulder set back when you FL size.

 

[Terry O]

You need to rollsize first. Case length will grow moving the shoulder forward.

 

[243winxb]

http://www.wolfbullets.com/rollsize.htm

I first heard of Roll Sizing in 2009 on Benchrest Central forums.
Looked like the Roll Sizing caused the 5.56 case head to fail?

 

[Papa Charlie]

You need to rollsize first. Case length will grow moving the shoulder forward.

This was my thought as well, but wanted to see if others had the same experience. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Papa Charlie]

http://www.wolfbullets.com/rollsize.htm

I first heard of Roll Sizing in 2009 on Benchrest Central forums.
Looked like the Roll Sizing caused the 5.56 case head to fail?

I have seen several different tool configurations. I shoot .308 and a pretty hot load. Been wanting to size the head area for some time. Tried a few traditional type dies that claimed to size this area but never saw any results. Hence how I came to design and build my own.

Testing on older brass shows ability to adjusting in the tenths (0.0001") area with repeatability and consistency in outcome.

As to roll sizing causing a head to fail, I have not heard of that before, doesn't mean it can't happen though. Seems like over sizing in this area with the thickness of the casing and the fact that this area is not annealed like the neck and shoulder, would be a cause of such failure.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Interesting. Worth the time to watch.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Do it first

 

[Rank Amateur]

Not arguing the point, but… As indicated, I’ve tried both orders and neither caused any change on target while removing clickers. I just measured length (to shoulder datum using calipers and SAC tool), of ten .284 cases after full-length sizing, roll-sized all of them, and then re-measured to shoulder datum. None of the length measurements changed following roll-sizing. Of course, use whatever operations order you prefer. I have no doubt that squeezing the case bodies can cause lengthening, but roll-sizing -0.002” didn’t. YMMV.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Even if it doesnt lengthen it reduces the force the FL die will see. So bump numbers will get more consistent.

 

[Papa Charlie]

Do it first

Thanks Alex, was hoping you would chime in.

What is your thoughts on running the cases through the roll sizer every time verse when the base dimension grows. I have concern about over working the metal as this area is not annealed. But realize that if any sizing is taking place every time it is in the low tenths or none.

 

[JezL]

Exactly as Alex points out. You need to Rollsize first, and do it every time. Your sizing die requires less work / force as it doesnt need to squeeze the base as much - this results in headspace difference. I had to adjust my sizing die's to achieve the required shoulder bump numbers. ( Using with SAUM IMP and PRCW )
Once adjusted, and rollsize each time, my bump numbers are very consistent.

I use the Rollsizer - its great! - no more clickers on aging brass - keeps my brass in check throughout its life cycle.

 

[Papa Charlie]

Exactly as Alex points out. You need to Rollsize first, and do it every time. Your sizing die requires less work / force as it doesnt need to squeeze the base as much - this results in headspace difference. I had to adjust my sizing die's to achieve the required shoulder bump numbers. ( Using with SAUM IMP and PRCW )
Once adjusted, and rollsize each time, my bump numbers are very consistent.

I use the Rollsizer - its great! - no more clickers on aging brass - keeps my brass in check throughout its life cycle.

Thanks for the clarification and view.

 

[209jones]

At 7-1200.00 US, it isn't really for the average reloader, need to use a lot of rounds to justify it vs the cost of new brass, although it is a buy once and cry once unit, and after using it for a few yrs a person will probably forget about what it costs, like most decent tooling.