what force from a bullet blows a varmint left or right up down but never straight back ? Ive heard lots of ideas over the years like fast bullet rotation or blood hydralics ,leg kick and others.This question has been bugging me too much lately so if there are any genuwine scientist or engeniers out there I would really like to know
rocket science ?
- Thread starter tigerbutte
- Start date
Lapua40X
California Hunter Education Instructor
Here's my theory ....................
Although there are laws of physics that explain a lot of what happens when a bullet strikes a mass that is essentially water confined in a hide covered structure, I think you'll find that there are no two types of varmints that respond identically. It's going to depend a great deal on where the bullet strikes, how deep it penetrates, etc. My squirrel loads literally explode when they contact the target. It's often difficult to identify exactly where the bullet hit. But while some of them just fall over, others jump six feet into the air, and still others flip like a proverbial coin toss. I believe there are times when, in addition to the affects of the projectile on the target, the size of the target and its unique central nervous system responses also come into play.
Although there are laws of physics that explain a lot of what happens when a bullet strikes a mass that is essentially water confined in a hide covered structure, I think you'll find that there are no two types of varmints that respond identically. It's going to depend a great deal on where the bullet strikes, how deep it penetrates, etc. My squirrel loads literally explode when they contact the target. It's often difficult to identify exactly where the bullet hit. But while some of them just fall over, others jump six feet into the air, and still others flip like a proverbial coin toss. I believe there are times when, in addition to the affects of the projectile on the target, the size of the target and its unique central nervous system responses also come into play.
Most important, IMO, is where the bullet hits in relation to center of balance. Left of center, expansive thrust pushes carcass to the right, hits below midline tend to push carcass upwards, etc. When I was shooting larger prairiedogs with 58 gr Hornadys, I sometimes waited for them to walk perpendicular to bullet flight, and aimed for exact middle lengthwise and about a quarter of the way up from the bottom of the belly...properly hit they would rise anywhere from six to thirty feet straight up!
CatShooter
tigerbutte said:
The flaw in the question is, "... but never straight back?"
I have had bunches of woodchucks and prairie dogs go straight back. The rest of the directional antics are from muscle spasm, or being hit away from the center of gravity.
on many occasions i've seen the following and don't understand the physics...shoot a 1 liter water-filled plastic bottle(thick plastic 1 liter bottles that contained saline, used in hospitals and are thrown away). these explode nicely and commonly come FORWARD and land several feet in front of their original position. high pressure forces objects to a position of lower pressure? does the bullet entering the bottle create a low pressure area and the exploding bottle/water then in an area of higher pressure push the thing toward the shooter? is the air pressure just behind the shock wave of the bullet low and at impact the bullet slows and the pressure just in front is higher resulting in this movement toward the shooter? if you can get these bottles put sugar, yeast and water to top and mix. wait a few and the things buldge with a good bit of pressure and really explode when hit. the screw tops break free and also come forward.
The shock wave created by the bullet has very little effect on the atmosphere, but when it transfers to non-compressible liquid medium the effect can be amazing. That force compressing the liquid and tissue in front of it causes a powerful rocket effect when spewing out the exit opening, driving the carcass (or water bottle) in the opposite direction according to the laws of physics. This illustrates the fallacy of that BS line about Kennedy's head movement proving another shooter, you know, the "Back...and to the left!".
CatShooter
bouddha said:
Please tell me... just WHAT LAWS OF PHYSICS are those - none that I ever studied... and I studied a lot of physics.
Are you saying there is no pressure involved when a frangible bullet collides with soft tissue at over 3000 feet per second? If there is, where did it come from, magic? When you blow up a balloon and release it, are physical laws at work or is that magic as well?
You studied "a lot of physics", and don't understand the law about force causing reaction? Seems like a pretty basic law was written about that one.
You studied "a lot of physics", and don't understand the law about force causing reaction? Seems like a pretty basic law was written about that one.
CatShooter
bouddha said:
You said...
bouddha said:
The shock wave in the atmosphere has very little energy, and that wave does NOT transfer to a non-compressible liquid medium.
bouddha said:
Putting the fact that you cannot compress liquids at these pressures aside...
... there is no powerful "rocket effect" in play, and if you had ever shot many woodchucks or prairie dogs, you would know that the internal gook is not driven in the opposite direction (out the front) - it is blown out the back of the critter, along with whatever is left of the bullet fragments... there is only a little entrance hole in the front.
I'll wager I haven shot as many varmints as you have. In your haste to reply, you incorrectly accuse me of an assertion I clearly did not make; that being the "internal gook" being driven in the opposite direction, when In fact I clearly stated that the carcass of the varmint (or water bottle) would be pushed in the opposite direction by the tissue spewing out the exit opening.
And I would rethink your position on there being no rocket effect when a projectile at 3,000 feet per second converts as much as half the entire body mass into a billowing pink vapor and spreads body parts over an area considerably larger than the varmints container.
That ain't no muscle twitch launching that two pound biomass more than six feet straight up...
And I would rethink your position on there being no rocket effect when a projectile at 3,000 feet per second converts as much as half the entire body mass into a billowing pink vapor and spreads body parts over an area considerably larger than the varmints container.
That ain't no muscle twitch launching that two pound biomass more than six feet straight up...
CatShooter
bouddha said:
Sorry... nice try - no cigar.
That is make believe science, and out of context.
When a bullet hits a target and the target moves, it is called a "Transfer of momentum"... it is NOT "rocket science"...
... same as when a car hits you and you go flying.
critters do go straight back some times. I shot a prarie dog at a lazered 325 yrds. with a 20-222/ 32gr sierra. all I could see was his head sticking out of his burrow. I shot he disappeared. I went to investigate. and he was 5' behind his mound on the ground. I guess it is possible that he was out of the hole on the mound but I doubt it. they like to poke their head out and have a look around.
"... same as when a car hits you and you go flying."
Yeah, if that car is about the size of a housefly and is being driven at 3,000 miles an hour.
Stop putting words I didn't say in my mouth. Nobody but you has used the term "rocket science". If there is no such effect, explain prairiedogs and/or their body parts being thrown back toward the shooter...have you ever seen ANYTHING struck by an automobile at speed be thrown back toward the direction the car came from? Of course not, stop being obtuse. My friends and I have all seen animal tissue thrown back at us at distances of 10-20 yards.
Keeping in mind, I don't use my truck to attack prairiedogs, but my forty odd years of shooting them has shown me that high speed bullets cause tremendous internal pressure that when released by the bullets' nearly simultaneous exit cause the carcass to be thrown in an opposite direction than the ejecta.
I'm beginning to think it's you who has little to no experience shooting small live targets. Very few of mine have behaved like road kills.
Yeah, if that car is about the size of a housefly and is being driven at 3,000 miles an hour.
Stop putting words I didn't say in my mouth. Nobody but you has used the term "rocket science". If there is no such effect, explain prairiedogs and/or their body parts being thrown back toward the shooter...have you ever seen ANYTHING struck by an automobile at speed be thrown back toward the direction the car came from? Of course not, stop being obtuse. My friends and I have all seen animal tissue thrown back at us at distances of 10-20 yards.
Keeping in mind, I don't use my truck to attack prairiedogs, but my forty odd years of shooting them has shown me that high speed bullets cause tremendous internal pressure that when released by the bullets' nearly simultaneous exit cause the carcass to be thrown in an opposite direction than the ejecta.
I'm beginning to think it's you who has little to no experience shooting small live targets. Very few of mine have behaved like road kills.
CatShooter
bouddha said:
You have obviously have missed the title of this whole thread.
my oh my - seems like a lot of other shooters have theroies I havent considered - so a bullet entering explodes or more acurately flies apart causing a much larger exit hole pushing meat stuff to the rear - I dont know how to put it - the action and reaction thing - guts flying backwards causes the rest to go forward or sort of staying put - dont give up on me - all ideas appreciated
When I was much younger,still in my teens,my father took me with him to site-in his 30-06 for deer season.We went to a cousins dairy farm for chucks and dad had grabbed a box of 180 gr silvertips instead of the 100 or110's by mistake.Rather than drive home and back we started loading.I hadn't finished filling the tube on my pump when my ears exploded.I thought he had screwed up loading.There was a runner about 250 yds away and dad snapshot.Went in right below the tail and came out the top of his head.No spine or brains left.Laid out like someone filleted the beast,I wish I had a camera but this was the 50's.I don't think he went more than two feet straight away but his guts went 10 yds. sorry for the long story but some you never forget.
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