rings that don't need lapping?

[LA50SHOOTER]

Using good rings and doing some checks prior to actually mounting the scope, I've found not a lot of value in lapping or ring marks on my scopes if I've pulled the rings off one. - I also find more value in weighing primers & having exact powder charge weight than in lapping scope rings.

 

[dmoran]

Way to many different mounting options and action alignment variables from one scenario to another, to make blanket statements in regards to if ring lapping is needed or not. Examples: mounting rings directly on the action verses mounting them on a rail, or using 2-piece rails verses 1-piece rails, etc., etc., etc.. For myself it is setup dependent, and I check alignment regardless.
Or so is my 2-cents....

 

[USMCDOC]

Start using the Burris Signature rings and you will sell your lapping tools. I haven't lapped a set of my personal rings in years.

if they would make em in 3/8 and 11mm dovetail with the inserts.. i would be all over that!

 

[STOMP442]

Only rings you'll find that dont need lapping are the rings on a high quality one piece mount. But I still lap and bed them to get perfect fit and the highest level of grip on the scope tube.

Burris rings work, but they are not what I would call high quality. I've owned the Burris Signature and XTR insert rings in the past. For a bench gun poking holes in paper, or a treestand/blind hunting rifle, they work fine and will hold zero. For a western hunting rifle that could see some heavy use and abuse in rugged terrain, I won't trust a cheap plastic insert to stay put if a person takes a hard fall where the rifle lands on the scope. For those rifles, I use a high quality one piece mount lapped and bedded for a perfect fit and grip. Good quality beefy 4 and 6 screw rings from companies like Seekins that are lapped and bedded also work very well for handling abuse. Just my personal preference.

If a person is not familiar with proper lapping and bedding of scope rings and does not wish to attempt it or have it done for them, then the Burris insert rings are probably the next best thing.

I would disagree with most of this statement. I live in Arizona and I build rifles for long range hunting in some of the most rugged terrain on gods green earth and the Burris rings are the only ones I trust to do the job. Those big beefy rings just look so tacky and out of place on a nice hunting rifle and just throws the whole look off. Just my opinion, you and the OP can use what ever rings and mounting method you choose.

 

[rkittine]

Although I have a set of lapping tools, I have switched 100 percent to the Burris Signature Z Rings with the inserts. I use the 3 hole tactical ones. The only time I do not use them is on my Davidson / Borden Bases. Unless things have changed, Burris does not make rings with the inserts for those dovetail bases.

Bob

 

[KY_Windage]

if they would make em in 3/8 and 11mm dovetail with the inserts.. i would be all over that!

They do if your tube is 1", which is what most people put on 3/8" and 11mm dovetails. When I want to run a 30mm scope on those, I get a base that converts to picatinny. But I agree -- Burris does not make as many models of the Signature as I wish.

I also wish they would add 5 and 20 insets to their Sig. Zee. It seems like such a simple, obvious thing.

 

[USMCDOC]

They do if your tube is 1", which is what most people put on 3/8" and 11mm dovetails. When I want to run a 30mm scope on those, I get a base that converts to picatinny. But I agree -- Burris does not make as many models of the Signature as I wish.

I also wish they would add 5 and 20 insets to their Sig. Zee. It seems like such a simple, obvious thing.

the one inch are not tall enough..

 

[JEFFPPC]

You can document on paper what properly mounted scope rings do for you as well.

You can also document the loss of value on an optic if you try to sell with ring marks on the tube.

Curious about what you document on paper? Are you referring to target results or somthing else? Strip of masking tapeI inside of each ring section takes care of marking in my experience, plus scope never moves. May require removing tape residue with some Hoppes.

 

[Adam in WI]

. - I also find more value in weighing primers & having exact powder charge weight than in lapping scope rings.

Not sure what the point of this last statement is; two entirely different objectives to those methods. I wouldn't argue that lapping rings is going to improve groups, but that's not why we do it in my opinion. It's for those instances where one wants to improve the grip of the rings, reduce stress on the scope tube, and reduce finish marring on the scope. I wish I still had pictures of the last set I lapped on a new model 70, a dozen passes with the lapping bar and only 25% of the ring surface was cleaned up. It took an hour to get them to 75%.

If I was in the BR game, and was spending ~$250 or more on scope mounting and screwing it to a custom action I'd expect better without lapping but for the majority of applications I find it beneficial.

 

[DirtySteve]

If the rings are top quality and a quality one piece base, then you will be fine. But remember I am a WV HillBilly so I ain't that bright niether.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Curious about what you document on paper? Are you referring to target results or somthing else? Strip of masking tapeI inside of each ring section takes care of marking in my experience, plus scope never moves. May require removing tape residue with some Hoppes.

I use fabric hockey stick tape on my varmint rifles where I dont always bed the rings. Always lap tho. Such a quick and easy process to lap rings that it doesnt really make sense not to do it.
I remove adhesive residue with CRC MAF sensor cleaner.

Talking about documenting with scope testing. You can check scope mounts too. But not gonna open that ball of wax here.

For the record...I stated that my method of mounting is just my "personal preference". Not a practice that needs to be followed. Many successful shooters and hunters out there that do things differently

 

[KY_Windage]

the one inch are not tall enough..

I'm wondering what you are trying to mount. They have been high enough for anything I ever wanted to mount in 1", such as this vintage Weaver.

 

[USMCDOC]

I'm wondering what you are trying to mount. They have been high enough for anything I ever wanted to mount in 1", such as this vintage Weaver.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I also like to mount, shoot, re-tourque. Also re-tourque every time before sighting in or testing new loads.

 

[USMCDOC]

Before Burris there was Jewell,, I buy them when I can find them, never lapped rings again


The X-Man

i have a set of 1" Jewel rings.. i will never sell em.. i would be using them now.. but for that they are not tall enough.. great for a Leupold 36 though

 

[BoydAllen]

I think that we are talking about a couple of different situations here, what you can get away with on a hunting, rifle and what you are about when mounting on a pull out all the stops competition rifle for something like benchrest or just the fun of having a full house competition grade rifle. And then there are those who approach the building of a hunting rifle with all of the seriousness of one built for the highest level of competition.

Another thing, I don't think that anyone who has not done a serious amount of ring lapping for a lot of different situations is really qualified to make recommendations, although their recounting of what they do and have done is of course just fine.

The only way that you can see how even or uneven a scopes' contact with rings is, is by making a few strokes with a lapping bar to see where it is cutting and where it is not.

Even if the rings are the best, and one is using a one piece base, if you screw that base down onto an imperfect receiver it will bend and take your rings out of alignment. Also, there is some distortion that can happen when you tighten a ring onto its base.

One of the best smiths that I know of, Speedy Gonzales once told me that he generally laps to 50% contact and then beds the rings to the scope. Also If you read Tony Boyer's book his scope mounting procedure is quite involved and exacting.

As others have said, I wish that Burris rings would cover all the bases, but until they do, I will not be just be bolting things together and calling it good enough.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

I have no experience with lapping, except watching pups get a drink. I have been using one piece mounts from Spur or LaRue. I am hoping someone will post a link that explains what lapping is and more information about how it’s done.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I think that we are talking about a couple of different situations here, what you can get away with on a hunting, rifle and what you are about when mounting on a pull out all the stops competition rifle for something like benchrest or just the fun of having a full house competition grade rifle. And then there are those who approach the building of a hunting rifle with all of the seriousness of one built for the highest level of competition.

Another thing, I don't think that anyone who has not done a serious amount of ring lapping for a lot of different situations is really qualified to make recommendations, although their recounting of what they do and have done is of course just fine.

The only way that you can see how even or uneven a scopes' contact with rings is, is by making a few strokes with a lapping bar to see where it is cutting and where it is not.

Even if the rings are the best, and one is using a one piece base, if you screw that base down onto an imperfect receiver it will bend and take your rings out of alignment. Also, there is some distortion that can happen when you tighten a ring onto its base.

One of the best smiths that I know of, Speedy Gonzales once told me that he generally laps to 50% contact and then beds the rings to the scope. Also If you read Tony Boyer's book his scope mounting procedure is quite involved and exacting.

As others have said, I wish that Burris rings would cover all the bases, but until they do, I will not be just be bolting things together and calling it good enough.

Nicely said

 

[KY_Windage]

View attachment 1164634

Yeah, that's a tough combination. Since with such a high scope having changeable inserts would probably be very important to me, I would start with a base (probably 20 moa) that would convert to weaver/picatinny, and then use the Burris Sig. Zee Highs. That would give you enough barrel clearance.

 

[Whisky Tahoe Foxtrot]

I have no experience with lapping, except watching pups get a drink. I have been using one piece mounts from Spur or LaRue. I am hoping someone will post a link that explains what lapping is and more information about how it’s done.

Youtube has several videos. Here's one from Wheeler Engineering:

Sinclair, Wheeler, and other tool suppliers make a bar of steel that is a precise diameter, 1in or 30mm, with a handle in the middle at 90 degrees. This can be used to align rings and when combined with lapping compound it can be moved back and forth while being rotated which "laps" or grinds the ring material to improve concentricity. Dove tail rings like Leupold benefit from this. The goal is to save your scope tube from getting crimped by slightly off center misaligned rings.

Scope levels for instance can benefit from lapping especially if they are cheap. it smooths out the inner diameter and your scope will have fewer ring marks as a result.