Right Combination BY Accident

[apakesha]

I am shooting a Rem 700 trued action with a Shilen short chambered match ss barrel. I use Lapua brass and Sierra 168 hp bt match king bullets. I full size, trim to length, debur, uniform the primer hole and primer pocket and developed the best powder charge (43.1 gr XBR8208 with the bullets seated .005 off the lands) using the Creighton ladder process. I keep getting inconsistencies in my groupings. The Creighton ladder process for developing loads suggests 5 fouling shots before shooting for accuracy. I used 5 Fiocchi 308 win match ammunition for my fouling shots because early on I bought some because the box said "match " on them. They were the worst shooting bullets that gave bad groups I had used so far. I previously used Federal Gold ammunition with good results. I bought new Winchester brass for reloading with OK results.

Last week as I stated I used the Fiocchi new ammunition and got the typical large group. Well I saved those 5 brass and reloaded them. The next time I used them reloaded for my fouling shots I got my best grouping ever(around .3). Then I shot my reloaded Lapua brass and and the groups opened up. The next time I reloaded all the same brass and used the same 5 Fiocchi brass for foulers I got an even better grouping (1 ragged hole about .2).

The Fiocchi brass is stamped Winchester and I will try and use some more Fiocchi brass that I saved and reload to see if it follows through with consistant results
.
The Lapua brass has been reloaded about 5 times. Maybe it is time to be annealed. I don't know why it won't shoot as good as the Fiocchi brass. Any thoughts?

 

[Erik Cortina]

Winchester brass has more internal capacity than Lapua 308 brass, therefore the Lapua brass will give you more pressure and speed with the same powder charge. So, try backing off the charge on the Lapua brass slightly and you should see your groups improve.

 

[fullersson]

+1 for Erik's suggestion. He should know about Lapua brass.

Erik,

I checked out your xtreme-concrete website. Very nice looking site. It doesn't matter how good you shoot it just won't pay all the bills will it?

 

[apakesha]

When working up the ladder 42.1gr and 43.1gr gave me the best accuracy. After registering these I started with the bullets jammed into the lands and started backing off every .005.
I'll try the 42.1gr and start backing off the lands using this charge.
Thanks I'll let you know how it works.

 

[Erik Cortina]

When working up the ladder 42.1gr and 43.1gr gave me the best accuracy. After registering these I started with the bullets jammed into the lands and started backing off every .005.
I'll try the 42.1gr and start backing off the lands using this charge.
Thanks I'll let you know how it works.

I would start with the seating depth that gave you good accuracy with the Win. brass and work down on the powder charge until the group tightens. Then play with seating depth if you desire.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Erik,

I checked out your xtreme-concrete website. Very nice looking site. It doesn't matter how good you shoot it just won't pay all the bills will it?

Thank you, I need to update the website as I have also been doing decorative concrete and need to post some pictures. Also need to add a decorative concrete section. If days were 30 hours long I might have enough time! ;D

No it doesn't! The problem is that sometimes work gets in the way of shooting!... Work before play...

 

[PREMOD70]

Similar thing happen to me years ago with a 30-06. I tried every commercial brass known trying to get the perfect load when I visited a friend that had just received a box of military brass that came from disassembled rounds. I neck sized the brass and loaded the same primer and bullet but knocked off a grain of powder for the difference in the brass and fired at my usual 300 yards. I put 10 rounds inside an inch but after I reloaded the brass again it went back to groups the size of the commercial brass. I bought the rest of the brass from my friend and all the brass did the same thing, shot great out of the gate but never the same after the reload. It was sweet while it lasted.

 

[jo191145]

Word to the wise. When Creighton Audette suggested five foulers before testing he did not mean any five foulers loaded with any powder any bullet at any velocity.
5 foulers at your beginning charge weight with the same powder and chosen bullet from a clean barrel. Anything else will leave you chasing your tail. Been there done that and seen the proof on paper.

As for the XBR. The more I've tested it the more I've disliked it.
Tried it in the 6ppc, 6Br, 204R, and even a 243W.
Last time I used it in load development I watched one particular load loose 200fps in the course of fifteen rds. 308W and 155 A-Max.
I wish you the best but I'll not be unscrewing the lid on that jug for quite awhile.

 

[PREMOD70]

Word to the wise. When Creighton Audette suggested five foulers before testing he did not mean any five foulers loaded with any powder any bullet at any velocity.
5 foulers at your beginning charge weight with the same powder and chosen bullet from a clean barrel. Anything else will leave you chasing your tail. Been there done that and seen the proof on paper.

As for the XBR. The more I've tested it the more I've disliked it.
Tried it in the 6ppc, 6Br, 204R, and even a 243W.
Last time I used it in load development I watched one particular load loose 200fps in the course of fifteen rds. 308W and 155 A-Max.
I wish you the best but I'll not be unscrewing the lid on that jug for quite awhile.

I agree with the number of foulers but then I like 20 round groups; the 1" groups at 300 were 5 shots. From what little I have used XRB it too does not do what I like in my .308. I don't have very much knowledge in the Extreme powders to date but hope someone does that will give their observations to this forum.

 

[apakesha]

Word to the wise. When Creighton Audette suggested five foulers before testing he did not mean any five foulers loaded with any powder any bullet at any velocity.
5 foulers at your beginning charge weight with the same powder and chosen bullet from a clean barrel. Anything else will leave you chasing your tail. Been there done that and seen the proof on paper.

Like I said "By Accident". Barrel is clean. I used the Fiocchi AMMO because I was being cheap and thought that using any rounds did not make any difference. My intention was to just foul the barrel. The first group using the factory Fiocchi was large. Then I used the spent brass and reloaded using the 43.1gr that I had worked up, I had the best group ever at that point. The second time I reloaded the same brass and used them as foulers I had an even better group.
I haven't had a chance to shoot any more but I prepared some more federal gold headstamped and winchester Fiocchi headstamped brass and will give them a shot in a day or two to see if my groupings stay tight.
Thanks Mike