Rifle Balance

[amlevin]

The rifle in question is a Remington 700 action with 24" bbl, heavy Varmint profile, and B&C Medalist "A-5 Style" stock. Using a Sinclair Tactical/Varmint bipod with rear Shooter's Ridge "bunny ear" bag.

I've been able to work up a real decent load and have worked on position/technique but still feel that "something's off". Rifle tends to jump around a little more than I like.

I recently got to thinking there might be a balance issue with the rifle being a little heavy on one end or the other.

What are the opinions out there on what makes a well balanced rifle for shooting with bipod and rear bag? Right now I haven't even bothered to weigh both ends at the resting points, just thought I'd see what the recommendations were. As it stands the bipod mount is as far forward as the forend rail allows so I can take weight off the rear bag by moving it back. If I need more weight to the rear, what methods do you use? I'm not a competitor so I have no weight restrictions. Just a fun target shooter with a few "Pest eradication" trips to the open areas of my state.

 

[seb]

There are several ways to reduce jump in bipod shooting.

"As is" (=with your current rifle & bipod configuration), put your shoulder as inline as possible with the bore axis. It's much better if your stock has an adjustable butt pad, set it high. --- Or use a lower rear bag so you are able to place your shoulder just behind (not on) the upper part of the butt pad.
Also put your shoulder as square as possible to minimize side/lateral movement during/after recoil.
Put the bipod as far forward as possible - basically the longer your stock/forearm/the front fulcrum, the lesser the jump.
Don't put the feet of the bipod on a "springy" base/platform when possible.
Depends on the caliber & weight of the bullet, you may also try different hold/grip & tension.

Another way (which is easy to do) is to add a good muzzle brake.

I am not a top shooter, but hope this help.... seb.

 

[NateHaler]

There are several ways to reduce jump in bipod shooting.

Another way (which is easy to do) is to add a good muzzle brake.

The muzzle brake might reduce the jump of that particular shooter, but will probably increase the jump of the shooters on either side.

 

[seb]

;D Lol, you're right sir.
However if you read his post, he mentions that he shoots the rifle for fun/pest eradication, not for competition...seb.

 

[amlevin]

There are several ways to reduce jump in bipod shooting.

Another way (which is easy to do) is to add a good muzzle brake.

The muzzle brake might reduce the jump of that particular shooter, but will probably increase the jump of the shooters on either side.

Hmmm. Maybe I could use one at the range to get a little more room on either side Might be perfect for that guy that likes to yak a lot rather than shoot. Might even help me get even with the guy who had his 338 Lapua out one day and every shot kept knocking my hat back.

 

[357Mag]

Re: Rifle Balance 2.0

Amlevin -

Howdy !

Rifle balance and rear bag both got mentioned.....

For over 30yr, I used to use a leather " rear bag " filled w/ sand as my varminting ( fwd ) rest... in " field conditions "
Whether off a truck roof, car roof, portable shooting bench, you name it. If the rifle could be shot from a rested/stable position;
I " balanced " my varmint rifle(s) atop a rear " bunny ear " bag.

Now.... do I or am I recommending that practice for use by others ? NO.

I am struck though, by how long and how successfully that method worked ? Why ask why ?

As for the rifle balance:
If you might be target shooting and/or varmint shooting from a fixed position, I vote you shoot a fairly heavy rifle.
My favorite custom varmint/target rifles ( not built to meet any certain wt class ) have run 16.25 - 16.75lb scoped.
And again, these rifles ( at those weights ) would shoot well from atop a bunny ear bag....something which no shooter given numerous rest choices would go for.

For the groundhog kill that got me into the 500yd club, my heavy varmint rifle was shot w/ the forend teetering on the relatively skinny
driver side window glass of my car. All I had to do was run the window down to achieve a good " hold ", and send the shot. I even took and hit the animal w/ a second " assurance shot ", when I saw tail movement. Both shots taken as described just above, hit one after the other. I didn't need to take that second shot, but wanted to be sure the animal was anchored for good.

IMHO - The balance of the heavy-barreled varmint rifle I was using, was a big part of the easy-with-which I was able to connect @ 500yd.

My point:
For my money, if you are going to shoot from a stationary position.....go w/ what historically has provided a stable, long range format.....
use a heavy-barreled varmint /and/or target rifles. And I'm talking... North of 10.5 lb naked.


To counter torque, wide/wider forends make sense. If your current rifle & stock feature a comparatively narrow forened (or a fairly rounded one ), you might try using one of those flat forend-to-bag adapter plates... which attach @ the sling stud.
Again, if you're not shooting off a bi-pod, use of one of those adapter plates might prove useful, and it's only a temporary install.

Well.... you asked.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[amlevin]

Re: Rifle Balance 2.0

My point:
For my money, if you are going to shoot from a stationary position.....go w/ what historically has provided a stable, long range format.....
use a heavy-barreled varmint /and/or target rifles. And I'm talking... North of 10.5 lb naked.


To counter torque, wide/wider forends make sense. If your current rifle & stock feature a comparatively narrow forened (or a fairly rounded one ), you might try using one of those flat forend-to-bag adapter plates... which attach @ the sling stud.
Again, if you're not shooting off a bi-pod, use of one of those adapter plates might prove useful, and it's only a temporary install.

Well.... you asked.


With regards,
357Mag

First, my rifle probably meets your weight criteria. Scope and tripod installed it scales at 17 lbs with 7 lbs on rear toe of he stock and 10 lbs weighed at the bipod legs (extended and rifle level).

I have just under 60% of the weight on the forward support with a little more than 41% at the rear. Is this close to optimum weight distribution? Or????

As for a front bag, I kind of like that setup as well. With a heavy rifle like mine I prefer to stick with the bipod and not have to pack another bag around. At 17 lbs I can't say that the recoil is that much, I just want to be able to track back on the target quicker.

 

[357Mag]

Re: Rifle Balance 4.0

AM -

Howdy back at ya !

I myself had not shot off a bi-pod much at all... over my past 30+ yr of accuracy rifle shooting.

I varmint shot groundhogs for the most part, and did not stalk them. For my use, shooting a bi-pod in table top flat NE Indiana soybean fields was impractical, as vegetation got in the way.

Rifle balance:
Hmmm.... I'll have to weigh my varmint/target rifle, to see what the wt distribution ratio is ?!
I DK if I have a suitable scale, for that. Film @ 11:00.....

I will say though, that I am shooting my scoped Marlin M-336XLR .35Rem using a cast-in-place barrel block/bipod + use a rear bag.
I have my " boosted" T-36 on it, and it shoots just stupid accurate !
And... it is NOT a heavy barrel rifle ( but barrel is comparatively long ) !
I'll need to check the wt distribution on THAT one, also.

I'll let you know.


With regards,
357 Mag

 

[DOGCAPPER]

Place your hand under the stock and lift looking for the point the rifle is balancer in one hand. Concensus is the rifle should balance with the hand 4" in front of the trigger guard. If it is barrel heavy get a large Fosner bit and drill the but for weight. Multiple holes ok.
Before drilling you might shoot some test shots putting your hand on top of the stock and holding it down.LT

 

[357Mag]

Re: Rifle Balance 5.0

Amlevin-

Howdy !

Imprecise science.....

Using a digi bathroom scale, and a fixed wt twice ( to enable scale to "arm" ); I saw this:

- Marlin M-336XLR .35Rem 24" SS 12-groove 1-16 Weaver T-36 Weaver 1pc scope mount Weaver strap-type rings Weaver 45*
offset riser. Weighing at the bi-pod feet, feet just slightly fwd of barrel/magazine tube mount point......
The wt distribution ratio was 3 - 2 ( barrel - toe of stock ). Put another way ..... 60/40..... mathematically speaking.

- Wichita WBR1375 " Deep 6 " wildcat 29" SS " 5-C"-rifled Broughton Hv Palma taper ( no scope mounted ) Ken Farrel 20MOA
1pc mount Ken Farrel 4-screw rings ( non-skeletonized ); I saw this:
The wt distribution ratio was 6 - 4 ( using normal position where forend would meet front bag , and toe of " butt stock").
Put another way.... 60/40.

Note: The Wichita varmint/target rifle utilizes a 36" straight heavy-wall aluminium " I"-beam, oriented as an "H", to form a chassis
to which mounts flat composite forend and butt stock pieces. The barrel is clamped to a central valley of the "H"-beam ( using 2ea
doubled-up plumbing repair clamps, w/ carriage bolts, bottom torque plates; and 4ea lock nuts ).

Use of the sturdy 36" lg aluminium "beam" w/ a 29" 6mm Hv Palma barrel did not take rifle past a 60/40 ratio.
I'm not sure just how far past 60/40 say.... a 30" barrel would.

Amlevin.... you may be on to something w/ that ratio, nicht var ?


With regards,
357Mag

 

[nevadabrass]

I suspect that the gunsmiths operate by experience rather than mathematics as calculating the balance point is a tedious operation.

A rifle that is very barrel heavy and shot from a bipod will be very sensitive to stock pressure and be tricky to shoot well. I added two pounds of lead to a stock to get more weight onto the rear bag. It helped the consistency a lot.

-----------------------------------------------
nevadabrass.com | Military Brass | Once Fired Brass

 

[dsbur]

Sounds like you and I are on the same page with our Rem700's. If you remember some PM's from me I have a 5R in a B&C A5 stock (now, thanks to you) and even with a nice Duplin bipod and some lead wool in the magazine well the thing is still pretty jumpy no matter where I put the bipod in the rail.

A gentleman on the east coast I chatted with came to the same conclusion with his 5R to counter jump-a rebarrel to add some more weight out front (it only weighs 16.25#) and a blueprint while I'm at it. Benchmark #8-3C barrel on order as we speak. Helpful hints I've read in the past suggested that a balance point apx. 2" in back of the bipod is a place to start.

I've tried reduced loads (43.9RL15 175SMK's in .308 Lapua palma brass, only getting 2490fps in that short barrel) with no luck. Getting very straight behind the rifle, several iterations of rear bags, etc.

She started as a tactical steel rifle and now I'm forcing/morphing her into an F/TR rig. Fortunately for me a fun learning experience-

 

[amlevin]

Sounds like you and I are on the same page with our Rem700's. If you remember some PM's from me I have a 5R in a B&C A5 stock (now, thanks to you) and even with a nice Duplin bipod and some lead wool in the magazine well the thing is still pretty jumpy no matter where I put the bipod in the rail.

A gentleman on the east coast I chatted with came to the same conclusion with his 5R to counter jump-a rebarrel to add some more weight out front (it only weighs 16.25#) and a blueprint while I'm at it. Benchmark #8-3C barrel on order as we speak. Helpful hints I've read in the past suggested that a balance point apx. 2" in back of the bipod is a place to start.

I've tried reduced loads (43.9RL15 175SMK's in .308 Lapua palma brass, only getting 2490fps in that short barrel) with no luck. Getting very straight behind the rifle, several iterations of rear bags, etc.

She started as a tactical steel rifle and now I'm forcing/morphing her into an F/TR rig. Fortunately for me a fun learning experience-

I finally shot out the 5-R stock factory barrel at somewhat over 10k rounds.

Re-barreled with a Benchmark 5C, 24" and a match chamber (no-turn). I have plenty of weight forward.

Was at the range this AM and made some adjustments to the stock in both LOP and Cant. Made big difference in both feel under recoil and group size as well. Several .3-.35 MOA groups after the change. I now need to build myself a "Bench Top" shooting mat so I have something to grip the bipod legs when I preload them. The smooth concrete bench top at our range seems to be contributing to the jitterbug dance my rifle makes when fired. When I put a piece of rug down it does much better but I have to adjust it after every shot as it slips around too much.

Have considered just rolling out my field shooting mat on top of the bench and letting the excess hang. We'll see.

Thanks all for the contributions of information and suggestions. Much appreciated.