Remington and bankruptcy

[hogpatrol]

Like the Big Three auto companies, they suffered from foreign competition in their core market. Tikka, CZ, Sako, Bergara, and Howa weren't around in their prime years. Add in Savage and Ruger coming on strong and it was a perfect storm.

 

[jk80]

---

Don’t forget Socialist Security and Medicare!!

I guess if thats how you feel about both programs you'll refuse both when you can.

 

[JimT]

---

I guess if thats how you feel about both programs you'll refuse both when you can.

Not necessarily, I just wanted to point out they are patently socialist styled government programs plain and simple. The way I look at it by accepting them I lessen the depletion of my Roth retirement assets that my children will inherit tax free.

 

[jk80]

Not necessarily, I just wanted to point out they are patently socialist styled government programs plain and simple. The way I look at it by accepting them I lessen the depletion of my Roth retirement assets that my children will inherit tax free.

Thats how most people define socialism. Its socialism until it affects them. Lol.

 

[RickB]

Maybe this had a little to do with it too:

“At Remington’s factory in Ilion, N.Y., employees had health care and long-term contracts thanks to the United Mine Workers of America. They were difficult to fire, and they stuck together. In some cases, multiple generations of men in the same family had worked on the line. “That union,” a former Remington executive told me disdainfully, “had them by the balls.””

I think there were many factors leading to Remington’s bankruptcy, but foremost among them certainly has to be the debt load from the takeover. In the end the company lacked the cash to produce products in a boom market.

This isn’t to say that the management was free of blame. They didn’t listen to customers for one thing. There was a lot of old outdated, inefficient, and badly worn equipment that should have been replaced many years ago. A few years ago they spent $5 million, needlessly and foolishly in my view, on a “product development center”. The money would better have been spent on CNC machinery and a few trips around the country asking people who actually were buyers just what they wanted.

They’ve always had labor troubles and had no reason to remain in 2A unfriendly NY. All in all it was a train wreck.

We’ll see if the new owner’s are any better. They say they want to stay in NY which, I think, is their first mistake.

 

[Ccrider]

Thanks for posting the article. Can’t quite put my finger on it but it seems like some of the stuff they did ought to be illegal. Ultimately, looks like the “investors” made a mint and the employees got the shaft. The people that did the brokering also got rich. And in the end, no accountability.

The financial institution that floated the traditional loan paying the investors should have fired a bunch of folks. And the State of Alabama/Huntsville politicians were either sleep at the wheel or intentionally allowed this fraud to be committed, all in the taxpayers and citizens’ backs.

Unbelievable.

 

[SPQR70AD]

Not familiar with “Dick Dyke.” I know some Dyke’s, but they don’t have Dicks. This is what results from a google search for Dick Dyke:

Google Search

You have no conception of how private equity operates. Did you read either of the articles? Did you fully understand them?

What exactly do you do for a living?

P.S. Most people equate the failure to properly capitalize words with laziness or lack of intelligence, I’m sure you are neither so give it the old college try in the future.

you act like a smart guy and that means you are dumb. I read BOTH articles and you would have known the Richard "Dick" Dyke was the owner of Bushmaster and treated his employees like family. sold it to the slimy rotten thieving feinberg who took away the profit sharing from the employees. then at 77 when feinberg looted remington- bushmaster- billions from the bailout then dumped it all DICK DYKE came out of retirement took back bushmaster and made 25 mil profit with the bloodsucker feinberg gone. if you stop watching pornos and read the article you would not appear as dumb.
I quit school at 15 started carrying lumber worked framing roofing concrete drywall for 50 years. I did not inherit or steal money no pension cause I worked for myself for 38 years. I do not sit around waiting for a low life to loot and bankrupt companies so I get a return on my money that maybe you do.
hedge fund managers biggest degenerates on earth. another tribal member paul singer bought destroyed looted Cabelas and the small town built around Cabelas along with all the people living there.

 

[457ciSBC]

I think there were many factors leading to Remington’s bankruptcy, but foremost among them certainly has to be the debt load from the takeover. In the end the company lacked the cash to produce products in a boom market.

This isn’t to say that the management was free of blame. They didn’t listen to customers for one thing. There was a lot of old outdated, inefficient, and badly worn equipment that should have been replaced many years ago. A few years ago they spent $5 million, needlessly and foolishly in my view, on a “product development center”. The money would better have been spent on CNC machinery and a few trips around the country asking people who actually were buyers just what they wanted.

They’ve always had labor troubles and had no reason to remain in 2A unfriendly NY. All in all it was a train wreck.

We’ll see if the new owner’s are any better. They say they want to stay in NY which, I think, is their first mistake.

Not best the at marketing products either......260 Rem,221 FB rifle, 6.8 SPC or 17 Fireball. Not to mention missing out on the .20 cartridge bandwagon.

Oh yeah, then there’s Etronx.......

 

[JimT]

you act like a smart guy and that means you are dumb. I read BOTH articles and you would have known the Richard "Dick" Dyke was the owner of Bushmaster and treated his employees like family. sold it to the slimy rotten thieving feinberg who took away the profit sharing from the employees. then at 77 when feinberg looted remington- bushmaster- billions from the bailout then dumped it all DICK DYKE came out of retirement took back bushmaster and made 25 mil profit with the bloodsucker feinberg gone. if you stop watching pornos and read the article you would not appear as dumb.
I quit school at 15 started carrying lumber worked framing roofing concrete drywall for 50 years. I did not inherit or steal money no pension cause I worked for myself for 38 years. I do not sit around waiting for a low life to loot and bankrupt companies so I get a return on my money that maybe you do.
hedge fund managers biggest degenerates on earth. another tribal member paul singer bought destroyed looted Cabelas and the small town built around Cabelas along with all the people living there.

That explains it!!! BTW, who did Cerberus buy Remington from?

 

[CharlieNC]

In the early 80's Dick Murdock purchased Canon Mills, which at the time I believe was only marginally successful. So he got it cheap. But why? He raided the pension fund, so those who worked there basically their entire adult lives were left with nothing. At the time that was a ploy which was unheard of, and is why today a company has to show that its retirement account is suitably funded and also cannot be touched. I am still amazed the man had a natural death! There is no depth that the arrogant, entitled will stoop to in order to take your penny for their pocket.

 

[JimT]

In the early 80's Dick Murdock purchased Canon Mills, which at the time I believe was only marginally successful. So he got it cheap. But why? He raided the pension fund, so those who worked there basically their entire adult lives were left with nothing. At the time that was a ploy which was unheard of, and is why today a company has to show that its retirement account is suitably funded and also cannot be touched. I am still amazed the man had a natural death! There is no depth that the arrogant, entitled will stoop to in order to take your penny for their pocket.

That sorta reminds me of this guy!!

Trump University - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[mensajd]

Cerberus probably lost their a** at the prior bankruptcy as shareholders have a pretty low priority in BK proceedings. Indeed Cerberus had to hand over the keys to creditors JP Morgan Chase, Franklin Resources, et al. It baffles me how the conspiracy theorists among you can continue to believe that PE firms make big money by losing money. Capital gains and carried interest are how successful PE firms make big bucks in a tax efficient manner.

 

[JimT]

Cerberus probably lost their a** at the prior bankruptcy as shareholders have a pretty low priority in BK proceedings. Indeed Cerberus had to hand over the keys to creditors JP Morgan Chase, Franklin Resources, et al. It baffles me how the conspiracy theorists among you can continue to believe that PE firms make big money by losing money. Capital gains and carried interest are how successful PE firms make big bucks in a tax efficient manner.

What’s even crazier is they think this “looting” happens every time and investors and banks keep investing and loaning money to them!!

 

[wkdickinson]

Like the Big Three auto companies, they suffered from foreign competition in their core market. Tikka, CZ, Sako, Bergara, and Howa weren't around in their prime years. Add in Savage and Ruger coming on strong and it was a perfect storm.

An argument can be made, that he Japanese car companies actually saved the American auto industry by forcing them to step up their quality or die. The "Big Three" were fat dumb and happy because the consumer had no alternative. They basically gave the UAW everything they wanted and just rolled it into the price. Ultimately when they had to create a quality product at a competitive price they were in trouble. Chrysler got a government "bailout" in order to stay afloat, GM actually filed bankruptcy and Ford was able to see it's way through, barely. But they all got a serious wake-up call.

In my opinion, one of the major differences between the the car companies and the Remington situation, is one of ownership. The car companies were always owned by either themselves or in Chrysler's case another car company, Daimler/Fiat. Remington long ago lost it's gunmaker ownership and became just another tool for private equity firms to exploit. Remington is not the only one either, look at the problems Colt and Winchester have had over the years, after loosing their gunmaker ownership.

As the article calls out clearly, private equity firms have only one goal and that is to not only make money, but make as much money as they can. They have no passion for the vehicles or people they use to do that. Decisions between short-term bottom line results and long-term quality products/craftsmanship, will always be made in favor of the bottom line.

 

[JimT]

An argument can be made, that he Japanese car companies actually saved the American auto industry by forcing them to step up their quality or die. The "Big Three" were fat dumb and happy because the consumer had no alternative. They basically gave the UAW everything they wanted and just rolled it into the price. Ultimately when they had to create a quality product at a competitive price they were in trouble. Chrysler got a government "bailout" in order to stay afloat, GM actually filed bankruptcy and Ford was able to see it's way through, barely. But they all got a serious wake-up call.

In my opinion, one of the major differences between the the car companies and the Remington situation, is one of ownership. The car companies were always owned by either themselves or in Chrysler's case another car company, Daimler/Fiat. Remington long ago lost it's gunmaker ownership and became just another tool for private equity firms to exploit. Remington is not the only one either, look at the problems Colt and Winchester have had over the years, after loosing their gunmaker ownership.

As the article calls out clearly, private equity firms have only one goal and that is to not only make money, but make as much money as they can. They have no passion for the vehicles or people they use to do that. Decisions between short-term bottom line results and long-term quality products/craftsmanship, will always be made in favor of the bottom line.

Agree with your first paragraph. Not sure how a corporation “are owned by themselves?” GM and Ford have been publicly traded for as long as I can remember.

 

[wkdickinson]

Agree with your first paragraph. Not sure how a corporation “are owned by themselves?” GM and Ford have been publicly traded for as long as I can remember.

Poor choice of words on my part. Yes, they were/are definitely publicly held companies and consequently the management answers only to the shareholders - who know they are invested in the car business. The point I was trying to make, is that they were not owned by a financial entity, who was only looking for the best return on their investment, not caring at all about where it came from. As their debt manipulation illustrates - Cerberus profits at Remington's expense, which ultimately leads to a Remington bankruptcy.

 

[JimT]

Poor choice of words on my part. Yes, they were/are definitely publicly held companies and consequently the management answers only to the shareholders - who know they are invested in the car business. The point I was trying to make, is that they were not owned by a financial entity, who was only looking for the best return on their investment, not caring at all about where it came from. As their debt manipulation illustrates - Cerberus profits at Remington's expense, which ultimately leads to a Remington bankruptcy.

No. In 2012 lenders were more than happy to loan Remington money based on income projections the lenders prepared and their judgment that Remington could service the debt they were taking on. In late 2012 Sandy Hook occurred and shortly thereafter Cerberus tried to sell their entire firearms portfolio but they could not find a buyer.

I often wonder where all the neo-CEO’s and neo-CFO’s resident on this forum were?????

The election of Trump sealed the deal and Remington could no longer service the debt based on drastically reduced sales. It’s that simple. No looting, no lying, just bad timing.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

No. In 2012 lenders were more than happy to loan Remington money based on income projections the lenders prepared and their judgment that Remington could service the debt they were taking on. In late 2012 Sandy Hook occurred and shortly thereafter Cerberus tried to sell their entire firearms portfolio but they could not find a buyer.

I often wonder where all the neo-CEO’s and neo-CFO’s resident on this forum were?????

The election of Trump sealed the deal and Remington could no longer service the debt based on drastically reduced sales. It’s that simple. No looting, no lying, just bad timing.

If this was the case why did the other gun companies do just fine under trump?

 

[Rick300]

No. In 2012 lenders were more than happy to loan Remington money based on income projections the lenders prepared and their judgment that Remington could service the debt they were taking on. In late 2012 Sandy Hook occurred and shortly thereafter Cerberus tried to sell their entire firearms portfolio but they could not find a buyer.

I often wonder where all the neo-CEO’s and neo-CFO’s resident on this forum were?????

The election of Trump sealed the deal and Remington could no longer service the debt based on drastically reduced sales. It’s that simple. No looting, no lying, just bad timing.

I just KNEW you could find a way to blame Trump! Simply amazing

 

[jelenko]

I just KNEW you could find a way to blame Trump! Simply amazing

I didn't read it that way. Trump's effect was to reduce gun sales overall.
That said, it doesn't explain what caused Remington to have to declare bankruptcy when the other gun mfg's didn't.

Clearly, the amount of debt Remington was carrying was too much for them with the reduced sales.

I think the question is: What caused/drove the debt?