Remington 783 Breech face to bolt nose clearance?

[hoz53]

i fitted a savage barrel to a rem 783 and needed more clearance between breech face and bolthead.
so i took a little off the bolthead however i took more than i wanted. the clearance is now .015. i figured this out by sliding pieces of shim stock down the race ways and closing the bolt on them until i got one i could just feel some resistance when closing the bolt. anyway i think the .015 is within say savage specs but i. would like it to be .005 and i think .010 is common on r700s. im thinking of buying a new bolt head from ptg. i just wonder if the .015 will support the case enough. this is in 6br btw. will it be okay to run with the .015 ? Thanks

 

[Stan Taylor]

i fitted a savage barrel to a rem 783 and needed more clearance between breech face and bolthead.
so i took a little off the bolthead however i took more than i wanted. the clearance is now .015. i figured this out by sliding pieces of shim stock down the race ways and closing the bolt on them until i got one i could just feel some resistance when closing the bolt. anyway i think the .015 is within say savage specs but i. would like it to be .005 and i think .010 is common on r700s. im thinking of buying a new bolt head from ptg. i just wonder if the .015 will support the case enough. this is in 6br btw. will it be okay to run with the .015 ? Thanks

The 783 rem is it same bolt nose as a 700 or more like a savage.I would like to see a picture of one Thanks

 

[jfseaman]

Um...

Not being a jerk, however...

Why did you remove material off the bolt head and not the breech face?

Someone else will need to answer about the clearance. I want to know what is the minimum and maximum "standard" clearance.

 

[RWO]

FWIW the Savage spec is a max of 0.130" between bolt and barrel faces. Savage bolt faces are about 0.115" deep give or take. So 0.015" clearance is usually within spec. for Savage bolts. Tighter than that risks tie-up by a stray bore brush bristle or other debris. According to Otteson, Rem 700 bolt faces are about 0.150" deep because of the extractor design. Factory clearance to barrel is about .010" which doesn't help its dirt resistance and gives a total cartridge head protrusion of about 0.160" YMMV.

RWO

 

[hoz53]

FWIW the Savage spec is a max of 0.130" between bolt and barrel faces. Savage bolt faces are about 0.115" deep give or take. So 0.015" clearance is usually within spec. for Savage bolts. Tighter than that risks tie-up by a stray bore brush bristle or other debris. According to Otteson, Rem 700 bolt faces are about 0.150" deep because of the extractor design. Factory clearance to barrel is about .010" which doesn't help its dirt resistance and gives a total cartridge head protrusion of about 0.160" YMMV.

RWO

OK that is good info. i guess i shouldnt worry that the .015 is to much clearance. ill put it back together and shoot it and see what happens. i try to keep this dimension .005 to .010 when doing a 700 so thats what i thought this one should be to. Thanks Much

 

[hoz53]

The 783 rem is it same bolt nose as a 700 or more like a savage.I would like to see a picture of one Thanks

its like a savage -ill get a pic and post it in this thread later today.

 

[hoz53]

Um...

Not being a jerk, however...

Why did you remove material off the bolt head and not the breech face?

Someone else will need to answer about the clearance. I want to know what is the minimum and maximum "standard" clearance.

that is a good question. my thought was id rather leave more of the case within the chamber and remove material from the bolt head where the case is unsupported anyway. i may be wrong. rwo explains what these clearances should be in his post in this thread. Thanks

 

[Stan Taylor]

its like a savage -ill get a pic and post it in this thread later today.

I was just curious been several customers order prefit barrels from us we chambered them the same as a savage an cut thread tenon same there are several action manufacturers coping savages for ease of head space setting thanks for your answer.

 

[hoz53]

I was just curious been several customers order prefit barrels from us we chambered them the same as a savage an cut thread tenon same there are several action manufacturers coping savages for ease of head space setting thanks for your answer.

here are the rem 783 bolt pictures. I used a shilen/savage drop in barrel in the 783 and i had to deepen and point up the tenon thread to get it to screw in easy. Also i understand the differance between the savage and 783 tenon is the breechface to bolthead dimension.

 

[Stan Taylor]

View attachment 1030653 View attachment 1030654
here are the rem 783 bolt pictures. I used a shilen/savage drop in barrel in the 783 and i had to deepen and point up the tenon thread to get it to screw in easy. Also i understand the differance between the savage and 783 tenon is the breechface to bolthead dimension.

Thanks hoz

 

[hoz53]

Thanks hoz

Thanks hoz

glad to help

 

[Ggmac]

I really like the 783 . If done a dozen or so so far . The action is a modified MARLIN xl7 or xs7 , bolts interchange , triggers are same , bolt heads same . Remington relocated the front action screw to accomidate the detachable mag , and they modified the bolt shroud /firing pin assembly .
Because of the difference in chamber depth , Rem vs savage , I usually remove a few thousandths from the savage barrels and use Plastigauge anytime I need a accurate measure .
Back to work outside today , maybe more this evening .
Gary

 

[hoz53]

I really like the 783 . If done a dozen or so so far . The action is a modified MARLIN xl7 or xs7 , bolts interchange , triggers are same , bolt heads same . Remington relocated the front action screw to accomidate the detachable mag , and they modified the bolt shroud /firing pin assembly .
Because of the difference in chamber depth , Rem vs savage , I usually remove a few thousandths from the savage barrels and use Plastigauge anytime I need a accurate measure .
Back to work outside today , maybe more this evening .
Gary

thanks Gary -- i need some parts for my 783 and it seems parts for them are hard to find. havent tried remington but mabie i can get some from marlin. need extractor, bearing, ejector, pin

 

[hoz53]

I really like the 783 . If done a dozen or so so far . The action is a modified MARLIN xl7 or xs7 , bolts interchange , triggers are same , bolt heads same . Remington relocated the front action screw to accomidate the detachable mag , and they modified the bolt shroud /firing pin assembly .
Because of the difference in chamber depth , Rem vs savage , I usually remove a few thousandths from the savage barrels and use Plastigauge anytime I need a accurate measure .
Back to work outside today , maybe more this evening .
Gary

oh yeah- what dimension do you use ?

 

[Ggmac]

oh yeah- what dimension do you use ?

Sorry for the delayed response . Dimensions for what ?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Unsupported brass @ 60+000psi is BAD. I've seen firsthand, the benefit of maintaining minimal clearance between the bolt and barrel but I've never had one to lock up from too little clearance and debris, but I agree that it COULD happen. I can live with that.

I read, years ago, an article by Mike Walker, the designer of the Remington 700 and their 3 rings of steel, that the proper clearance for all dimensions related to bolt clearance is .003"-.005" on his action design. I've looked for that article many times since, to no avail. Remington does not currently follow that rule and I don't think they ever did, consistently.

Yes, I know that most smiths use .010 on several makes of actions. I'm not sure that makes it right, though. Clearance is clearance until something goes wrong. Like either the clearance becomes too much or the pressure going too high. The Remington 3 rings of steel is a SUPERB design!

Savage and Sako use a baffle, Remington has it's 3 rings of steel. Solid brass can stand a lot of pressure but the thin brass above the solid portion...not so much. I think people, particularly gunsmiths and handloaders should measure the solid portion of THEIR brass and decide for themselves what is best to stand between them and a 60,000psi bomb just inches from your face.

I don't mean to sound course about this but I do feel strongly about it. I only hope it saves one person's eyesight, or worse. As I said, I've never experienced any down side to using .005" clearance but I have come away unscathed, much to it's credit.

FWIW, this was a "worst case" scenario, where it was a PPC case on a .308 bolt face and a Sako extractor. I even had a Pressure Trace hooked to the gun when it happened. It read 123,000PSI!!--Mike

 

[hoz53]

Unsupported brass @ 60+000psi is BAD. I've seen firsthand, the benefit of maintaining minimal clearance between the bolt and barrel but I've never had one to lock up from too little clearance and debris, but I agree that it COULD happen. I can live with that.

I read, years ago, an article by Mike Walker, the designer of the Remington 700 and their 3 rings of steel, that the proper clearance for all dimensions related to bolt clearance is .003"-.005" on his action design. I've looked for that article many times since, to no avail. Remington does not currently follow that rule and I don't think they ever did, consistently.

Yes, I know that most smiths use .010 on several makes of actions. I'm not sure that makes it right, though. Clearance is clearance until something goes wrong. Like either the clearance becomes too much or the pressure going too high. The Remington 3 rings of steel is a SUPERB design!

Savage and Sako use a baffle, Remington has it's 3 rings of steel. Solid brass can stand a lot of pressure but the thin brass above the solid portion...not so much. I think people, particularly gunsmiths and handloaders should measure the solid portion of THEIR brass and decide for themselves what is best to stand between them and a 60,000psi bomb just inches from your face.

I don't mean to sound course about this but I do feel strongly about it. I only hope it saves one person's eyesight, or worse. As I said, I've never experienced any down side to using .005" clearance but I have come away unscathed, much to it's credit.

FWIW, this was a "worst case" scenario, where it was a PPC case on a .308 bolt face and a Sako extractor. I even had a Pressure Trace hooked to the gun when it happened. It read 123,000PSI!!--Mike

Hi Mike-- this is what i believe to. the figures ive seen from different guys are .005 and .010. like you say id like to keep that to a minimum and still operate ok. i never heard that .003 to .005 from mike walker. thanks for providing that to me -now i know what the dimensions really should be. from what info i can get the bolt nose to breech face spec from savage is up to .016. with no counterbore for the third ring it just seems to me youd want it as close as possible. i dont put much faith in those savage baffles. anyway i will try to keep these dimensions as close as i can. wow 123000 psi. i have two r700 actions i got from ptg with their bolts in them. They have the mini16 extractors in them i believe. i kind of wish i would have got them with the std remington extractors now for this reason.
Thanks Much for this info clearing this stuff up for me.

PS. the r783 has the savage style bolt with a bolthead but no baffle on the bolt. ill have to look over the gas routing system a little closer.

 

[hoz53]

Sorry for the delayed response . Dimensions for what ?

hi Gary- boy you must have alot of stuff. anyway bolt nose to barrel breech face on a r783 is wat ive been wondering

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Hi Mike-- this is what i believe to. the figures ive seen from different guys are .005 and .010. like you say id like to keep that to a minimum and still operate ok. i never heard that .003 to .005 from mike walker. thanks for providing that to me -now i know what the dimensions really should be. from what info i can get the bolt nose to breech face spec from savage is up to .016. with no counterbore for the third ring it just seems to me youd want it as close as possible. i dont put much faith in those savage baffles. anyway i will try to keep these dimensions as close as i can. wow 123000 psi. i have two r700 actions i got from ptg with their bolts in them. They have the mini16 extractors in them i believe. i kind of wish i would have got them with the std remington extractors now for this reason.
Thanks Much for this info clearing this stuff up for me.

PS. the r783 has the savage style bolt with a bolthead but no baffle on the bolt. ill have to look over the gas routing system a little closer.

You know, that Sako extractor stayed put and the case blew out at the ejector pin.

I was developing loads for a small 30 cal rifle cartridge. It likes very fast rifle powder and some slow pistol powders. I had two powders out when the phone rang....

Anyway, I'm glad it was done like it was.

Remington uses a deeper bolt face than most. Clearance doesn't know what brand of rifle it's on. I think keeping the case as supported as possible and the clearances minimal, are very good things to do, regardless of how many hof points a gunsmith has.

I've probably shot hundreds of thousands of rounds like this and have yet to have a bolt lock up on anything.

Maybe I've been lucky with that but I can control my luck in terms of how much unsupported case sticks out.

Call or pm me tomorrow if you like. I'd be happy to talk with you about this or anything.

 

[hoz53]

You know, that Sako extractor stayed put and the case blew out at the ejector pin.

I was developing loads for a small 30 cal rifle cartridge. It likes very fast rifle powder and some slow pistol powders. I had two powders out when the phone rang....

Anyway, I'm glad it was done like it was.

Remington uses a deeper bolt face than most. Clearance doesn't know what brand of rifle it's on. I think keeping the case as supported as possible and the clearances minimal, are very good things to do, regardless of how many hof points a gunsmith has.

I've probably shot hundreds of thousands of rounds like this and have yet to have a bolt lock up on anything.

Maybe I've been lucky with that but I can control my luck in terms of how much unsupported case sticks out.

Call or pm me tomorrow if you like. I'd be happy to talk with you about this or anything.

thank you for all your help. i sure appreciate having you as a source of info. the only overload ive had was when i started loading (70s) i was tired, groggy two powders there- that was in a 95 mauser. i didnt get hurt. alot of gas-blown primer- expanded case head-beat bolt open. wonder what psi on that was. i wonder how close to the edge i was with that small ring mauser. it wasnt damaged. scared me though-- never know though its always possible to make a mistake again.