Remington 700 Sendero 300 Win Mag Issues

[nonnieselman]

Here is something ive never seen before, maybe one of you have or might have an idea of whats going on.

My buddy bought this rifle last year and burnt 3 boxes of ammo trying to get it zeroed. He gave up on it. This year he brings it to me asking if i can get it setup for him with his new scope and wanted to know the drop per 100 yards.
Its a brand new rifle with a Swarovski Z3 BT L 4-12x50 scope. I took it to the field to zero it and this is what i ran into. Like i always do with a bolt action, i removed the bolt and set the rifle up with a bipod and a rear rest.

Looked down the bore and got it on target then moved the scope over till everything looked good. Missed a 12"x12" target. Looked back thru the bore and everything looked good.
Move the target to 50 yards and missed. Moved it to 25 yards and missed. Bore and scope still lined up on target really good. Got to looking and seen a hit in the dirt to the far left of the target. So i cranked the windage all the way and got it on paper. Took it back to 100 yards and 4" left of center is as close as i can get.

So i told him what i found and he mentioned that was the same issue he was having last year. Thinking it was the cheaper base he used or rings i went and got a EGW off my 270 and the Vortex HS-LR scope and Burris XTR rings off my .22-250. Took the brass and reloaded some 165 grain SST pulled bullets with a minimum charge of IMR 7828. Mounted everything and i had to crank my windage over quite a bit but i was able to get a 100 yard zero and then went to 500 yards and the thing shoots great even with a throw together load.

I leave my EGW base on and put his scope and rings back on the rifle. Same sad story, wont even zero at 50 yards. Take the rings and flip them, same thing. Swap rings front to back and same thing. Flip them again. Not getting anywhere.

I ordered some leupold rings and base that has the windage adjustment in the rear. Figure that way at least i can center the scope on the windage and adjust the base to zero it.

Only 2 things i can come up with is Barrel has a bad bow in it or the scope base mounting holes aren't true to the bore.

Ive zeroed a whole bunch of rifles looking down the barrel and have always been able to get them on paper at 100 yards easy. When i can get this to 4" left at 100 yards, i look down the barrel and cant even see the target.

I think its got 80+ rounds down the barrel now and not one of them have been close enough to call it good.

 

[4xforfun]

My guess is that the holes drilled in the reciever for the base are off. That is fairly common.

 

[Depart123]

The mounting holes on Remingtons are commonly off by a bit, but to be off THAT much would be easily recognizable with the naked eye. I would suspect the Swaro scope. Just because a scope is expensive doesn't make it immune to failure.

After all, with different bases and rings and a different scope the problem was much diminished was it not? You put the Swaro back on it and it did the same thing. It may be a combo of crooked mounts plus a scope failure. Put the Swaro on a proven rifle and see what happens. That will tell the tale. You have to isolate variables one by one to find problems.

 

[nonnieselman]

The EGW base was pretty tight to put on so it does feel like the spacing of the mounting holes to be off just a little. It was easy to put on my older 700 .270.

IF the mounting holes are off enough for first setup to not work out with enough windage... But i got my vortex to zero at 100 but at 500 yards would it act weird as to the group walking further left?
If the barrel was curved to the left i could see it constantly shifting impact to the left the further the distance.

 

[CaptainMal]

You MUST know and seems like you MUST use a Burris Signature set of rings. Move the offsets in the direction you need to go. You can do windage, elevation or both with Burris signature rings. Just manipulate the insert offsets.

I you do not know of what I speak - do the research and get a set. DO it NOW!

 

[jepp2]

If it were mine, I would call Remington, get a shipping box and a scheduled pickup date, and let them determine the cause of the problem, and correct it to my satisfaction.

 

[KenOath]

Sounds like the Swaro..

 

[4xforfun]

The mounting holes on Remingtons are commonly off by a bit, but to be off THAT much would be easily recognizable with the naked eye. I would suspect the Swaro scope. Just because a scope is expensive doesn't make it immune to failure.

After all, with different bases and rings and a different scope the problem was much diminished was it not? You put the Swaro back on it and it did the same thing. It may be a combo of crooked mounts plus a scope failure. Put the Swaro on a proven rifle and see what happens. That will tell the tale. You have to isolate variables one by one to find problems.

They did that already and said so in the OP:

"So i told him what i found and he mentioned that was the same issue he was having last year. Thinking it was the cheaper base he used or rings i went and got a EGW off my 270 and the Vortex HS-LR scope and Burris XTR rings off my .22-250"

 

[Depart123]

They did that already and said so in the OP:

"So i told him what i found and he mentioned that was the same issue he was having last year. Thinking it was the cheaper base he used or rings i went and got a EGW off my 270 and the Vortex HS-LR scope and Burris XTR rings off my .22-250"

Nope, this passage says that they changed the whole rig at once, AND did it on a suspect rifle. Don't know what they actually did, but that is what the OP said. To isolate variables every component must be tested as part of a proven system. But you knew that.

 

[nonnieselman]

I talked to a guy at Remington and he said they have seen bent barrels from shipping incidents. But if it was a bent barrel and it was zeroed at 100 yards with my scope wouldnt it be way off at 500 yards? The group was about 6-8" left but had a pretty good wind also so i figured that was it. The load was a min charge of 7828 with a 165sst just to shoot instead of shooting his $2.25 ammo.

Guy at remington said to just let them know when i wanted to send it back in and they would take care of everything. I told him after deer season id get it on the way.
Ive got a set of leupold rings and base on the way to get him thru this season. Its the base with the windage adjustment at the rear.

But it still bothers me that i can zero it with my vortex at 100 yards, but look down the bore and not see the target. Then dial it up and hit at 500 yards with no extra windage.
Crown looks great and is cut square also.

Ill put his SWAR scope on my .22-250 and see how it does when i get some time.

 

[xswanted]

Common problem with Swarovski scopes. I've set up a pile of those things that run out of adjustment. Awesom optics but for some reason they are very picky with being set in the receiver.

Try another scope or get it setup with signature see rings.

 

[Wingnut00]

Last summer my cousin bought the exact same scope you stated and he couldn't get it to hit paper. So I go over to help him and took along one of my scopes. So long story short it ended up being the scope. My scope in his rings on his rail and I was one MOA out of dead center on my scope. Closest I could get his scope was about seven inches from center before runnin out of windage adjustment.

 

[DickE]

Receiver face canted?

 

[nonnieselman]

The .22-250 has a trued faced on the receiver, and a heavy recoil lug with a factory Savage 12 22" 12 twist barrel. When i put the Vortex scope on it with Burris XTR rings and EGW base it only needed about 2moa windage from center of scope adjustment at 200 yards for a good zero, so i feel that rifle is put together well and shoots straight.

Now take that scope/rings off and put on the Sendero with a known good EGW base, that i had on a .270 that shot straight as well, now i have to crank the Vortex scope over a couple revolutions to get it on paper at 25 yards. That tells me barrel or base mounting holes not straight? Everything looks good to the eye so thats why i was stumped.
Vortex zeroed on the 300WM at 100 yards and i just held over using the reticle and shot a good group at 500 yards and the group was only off a few inches from center but there was a decent wind. So that should rule the barrel out as being a good one.

Ive got his scope in the safe so when i get time ill get it mounted on my .22-250 and see what happens.

 

[agr516]

I ran into this a while back with a post-64 Winchester model 70 that I have. I had a 5.5-22 NF on it which I sold to a friend in order to upgrade to an 8-32 NF. I never knew I had a problem until I mounted the 8-32 because it has less windage adjustment than the 5.5-22 did. I simply could not pull the crosshairs over to the target before I ran out of adjustment. It turned out to be poorly aligned holes in the receiver. It is hard to believe that Winchester or Remington could be so sloppy about something so simple but it does happen.

 

[JBT47]

Did you lap the rings?

 

[nonnieselman]

Rings were elcheapos and it looks like a cheap 1 piece weaver base, so no i wouldnt waste my time to lap them. Dont ask, im just trying to help him out.
I never figured out why someone would spend that kinda money on a rifle and scope and get the cheapest rings and base he could find then shoot rounds that are $2.50 thru it.

I did put the Swarvoski on my .22-250 last night and got it zeroed at 200 yards with plenty of windage left. Elevation bottomed out but i have a 20moa base on it. Then i turned the windage one revolution to the left and shot. Turned it 2 revolution to the right and shot. Shots did hit where they were supposed to so id call the scope good.

 

[nonnieselman]

Leupold base and rings fixed everything.
Centered the windage on the scope and used the base to get the windage as close as I could at 100 yards. Only took about 2moa to get it dialed in.

I loaded some more 165 grain SST with minimum charge of RL19 just to get it on paper. These things shoot awesome. 300 yards was about 1.5" group for 3 shot sighters. Went to 500 yards and could cover them with my fist. Even had about 4 hang fires out of 20. Things still shot great.

Let it cool back off and used the factory winchester 180 gr Silvertip and they shot like poo. Couldn't even keep 3 on a 12" plate at 400 yards.

I let it cool back off and tried them again. I don't think I'd use them past 300 yards for deer. That hurts since they are over $2 per round.

 

[Chfcemerson]

I just went through the same thing with onebof my rifles. It turned out to be cheap bases that were not made correctly. Sometimes to save a nickle to only you end up spending a dime and waste a lot of time. There is no substitute for proven precision products, rings, bases, and optics.

 

[rogn]

Think about this, if the scope is looking at the POI and the barrel is looking somewhere else then the scope is telling the truth and the barrel is a "lyin' dog". The barrel or bedding has some issue thats causing the harmonics to fling the bullet to some nodal position that is not where the visual bore is looking. Bedding, float etc are all issues. I have a 375 that would 2 group until I figured the recoil was enough to put the front sling swivel into the front bag, that would give a 6-7" displacement at 100yd. Sent the scope back for evaluation and it was returned as being "OK". I finally got smart enough to find the problem. If the swivel hit the bag the same way every time it would have shot a reasonable group 7" at 11 oclock.