Remington 40x or Savage 12 f class?
- Thread starter bozo699
- Start date
I love my savages and feel in the accuracy department they can match most of my higher priced actions (probably not as slick though) more and more aftermarket parts (stocks etc) are available.
But there is no arguing with the amount of gear you can buy for the Remington and how much the action has been used as a building block for so many great rifles.
As pauls said - if you want something to shoot out of the box I would pick a savage. If you want to do some work on them and change stocks etc then it would be a harder choice but You can still get what you want for a savage including drop in barrels and great stocks.
As far as the caliber choice goes. That is purely dependant on your distance you wish to shoot. under 600 yards I would go with the 6BR and 500-1000 I would choose the 6.5*284.
Just my opinion and I am sure there is a lot of remington supporters out there (and I like them too).
A bit like choosing which car to drive - too many good choices makes it hard.
But there is no arguing with the amount of gear you can buy for the Remington and how much the action has been used as a building block for so many great rifles.
As pauls said - if you want something to shoot out of the box I would pick a savage. If you want to do some work on them and change stocks etc then it would be a harder choice but You can still get what you want for a savage including drop in barrels and great stocks.
As far as the caliber choice goes. That is purely dependant on your distance you wish to shoot. under 600 yards I would go with the 6BR and 500-1000 I would choose the 6.5*284.
Just my opinion and I am sure there is a lot of remington supporters out there (and I like them too).
A bit like choosing which car to drive - too many good choices makes it hard.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
I was leaning towards the savage before I even started this thread,not set on the idea just leaning towards as I already own many many.....remingtons both custom and factory and a few factory savages. Although I do not own and never have owned a 40x or a model 12. I have a idea I will still need to have them trued up same as the 700s or the 110s to get the accuracy I will wan't.It will be fun to see what all the comments I hope to generate from this,Then again maybe I will do as Pauls suguests and buy both and have a shoot off 
Thanks guys keep it coming!
Wayne.
Thanks guys keep it coming!Wayne.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
As far as the caliber choice goes. That is purely dependant on your distance you wish to shoot. under 600 yards I would go with the 6BR and 500-1000 I would choose the 6.5*284.
Just my opinion and I am sure there is a lot of remington supporters out there (and I like them too).
A bit like choosing which car to drive - too many good choices makes it hard.
[/quote]
Camac
Your right I never stated how far I wanted to shoot,and I am not sure either. I have a thousand and beyond on my range,I defintly want to be able to go 600 and I think the 6br should be able to do that,not shure how it would do @ a 1000?
Wayne
Just my opinion and I am sure there is a lot of remington supporters out there (and I like them too).
A bit like choosing which car to drive - too many good choices makes it hard.
[/quote]
Camac
Your right I never stated how far I wanted to shoot,and I am not sure either. I have a thousand and beyond on my range,I defintly want to be able to go 600 and I think the 6br should be able to do that,not shure how it would do @ a 1000?
Wayne
I have always preferred Savage over Remington for several reasons. The top reasons are less machining to get top accuracy, simpler barrel replacement, and, in my opinion, the accutrigger has it all over a factory Remington. They have also been more accurate out of the box than most Remingtons as well. That is not saying the 40X isn't a nice rifle, because it truly is nice, it's only my opinion and observations. I just see no point in investing in a rifle when the action will need to be fully remachined to get top performance.
As for caliber, 6BR is hard to beat for versatility. It is superb to 600 and can still do well at 1000 if the conditions are right. If you require more power, the 6 dasher or other 6BR offspring are another option that are effective at 1000 without being as hard on the barrel as a 6.5-284.
As for caliber, 6BR is hard to beat for versatility. It is superb to 600 and can still do well at 1000 if the conditions are right. If you require more power, the 6 dasher or other 6BR offspring are another option that are effective at 1000 without being as hard on the barrel as a 6.5-284.
I have heard of 6.5X284 barrels going south in as little as 800 rounds, though I think they probably average closer to 1500 if you cut off an inch or two and rechamber around 800-1000, as the throat is what takes most of the abuse.
As for 6BR, it should give you 2500 rounds of top accuracy and probably more if not ran very hot, with the 6BR improved rounds being close to that as well. I have heard stories from friends of 6BR barrels being accurate into the 4000 round range, though I don't have first hand knowledge of it. You should get close to double the life of a 6.5-284 easily.
If you figure the cost per shot, including barrel, the 6BR has it all over the 6.5-284 without giving up a whole lot, unless you are strictly shooting 1000yd comp. The 6BR, like the 6PPC, is just right as far as case capacity to get the job done without abusing the barrel.
Hope that helps
Kenny
As for 6BR, it should give you 2500 rounds of top accuracy and probably more if not ran very hot, with the 6BR improved rounds being close to that as well. I have heard stories from friends of 6BR barrels being accurate into the 4000 round range, though I don't have first hand knowledge of it. You should get close to double the life of a 6.5-284 easily.
If you figure the cost per shot, including barrel, the 6BR has it all over the 6.5-284 without giving up a whole lot, unless you are strictly shooting 1000yd comp. The 6BR, like the 6PPC, is just right as far as case capacity to get the job done without abusing the barrel.
Hope that helps
Kenny
I am not an expert on the 6BR improved rounds by any means, but I doubt you will lose much if any accuracy with them. Most will cost you a bit of neck length, which could limit you a bit in bullet selection. If you go with a long throat for heavy bullets, you may not be able to run the shorter bullets and still get into the lands, and if you go for a short throat the heavy bullets may end up inside the case reducing the capacity. But you will gain extra case capacity and velocity, which makes it easier to reach 1000yds accurately.
You will have to fireform all your brass, which adds extra time and work. And that can be a pain if you are short on time.
Truthfully, unless you are going to be shooting past 600yds most of the time, the 6BR will probably serve you just as well without any of the hassle of the improved rounds. You can use brass as bought with minimal prep, and keep the long neck for improved versatility. It is very easy to find an accurate load for, and needs far less tuning than the 6PPC usually does. Basically, if you can't find a good load with H4895, Varget, RL15, or a few of the other useful powders, you probably have an issue with the gun. My buddy spent 1 day testing loads, and was getting exceptional accuracy pretty much right out of the gate. He didn't even bother trying to improve it after that, as it has been a consistent .35 MOA gun ever since, and it's a bone stock rebarreled Savage. So it's not hard at all to achieve amazing accuracy.
If you want less work reloading, no fireforming, and plan to shoot inside 600 yards most of the time, the 6BR will do all you need and then some. If you want a 1000yd gun, than maybe look to a Dasher or BRX. The stock 6BR will still make it to 1000, but it will have a bit more drop and drift due to having less velocity.
You will have to fireform all your brass, which adds extra time and work. And that can be a pain if you are short on time.
Truthfully, unless you are going to be shooting past 600yds most of the time, the 6BR will probably serve you just as well without any of the hassle of the improved rounds. You can use brass as bought with minimal prep, and keep the long neck for improved versatility. It is very easy to find an accurate load for, and needs far less tuning than the 6PPC usually does. Basically, if you can't find a good load with H4895, Varget, RL15, or a few of the other useful powders, you probably have an issue with the gun. My buddy spent 1 day testing loads, and was getting exceptional accuracy pretty much right out of the gate. He didn't even bother trying to improve it after that, as it has been a consistent .35 MOA gun ever since, and it's a bone stock rebarreled Savage. So it's not hard at all to achieve amazing accuracy.
If you want less work reloading, no fireforming, and plan to shoot inside 600 yards most of the time, the 6BR will do all you need and then some. If you want a 1000yd gun, than maybe look to a Dasher or BRX. The stock 6BR will still make it to 1000, but it will have a bit more drop and drift due to having less velocity.
I had built four Dashers for myself before trying a straight BR in an Eliseo R5 tubegun. I get around 2850fps with 105/107s using RL15 out of the BR (could load hotter, but that's about the limit for best accuracy), while the Dashers typically produce 2970-3000fps with the same bullets & accuracy. So naturally, I anticipated more wind drift than I'd seen out of my Dashers at 600yds with 105/107s during across-the-course HP matches. According to Bryan Litz's PMBS program, the difference in velocity is worth 1.5" of drift at 600 in a full-value wind of 10mph. No question, that 1.5" will cost you points if you miss a little pickup or letoff.
Several times, I've thought about pulling the BR bbl. and punching it out to Dasher configuration; since I have a Dasher reamer, all it would cost me is the time & effort to do so. However, the BR bbl. is shooting good, and I hate to mess with it because of that. I'm also not that wild about having to fireform the 500pcs. of BR brass that's dedicated to this bbl.
Since I built an Eliseo RTS in 6.5x47 Lapua last winter, I just shoot it with 130VLDs or 140s if I want better performance at 600. Accuracy is outstanding, recoil is very tolerable, and barrel life should be nearly as good as the BR's. Even though the little Lapua 6.5 doesn't produce the velocity with heavies that the 6.5x284 will, performance in the wind with 130s & 140s beats the best I can get out of the Dasher by a comfortable margin.
I've shot my Dashers at 1000 several times, and have never been disappointed with their performance. However, I think an excellent option for you would be a Savage w/factory 6BR bbl, plus a custom bbl. in 6.5x47.
Several times, I've thought about pulling the BR bbl. and punching it out to Dasher configuration; since I have a Dasher reamer, all it would cost me is the time & effort to do so. However, the BR bbl. is shooting good, and I hate to mess with it because of that. I'm also not that wild about having to fireform the 500pcs. of BR brass that's dedicated to this bbl.
Since I built an Eliseo RTS in 6.5x47 Lapua last winter, I just shoot it with 130VLDs or 140s if I want better performance at 600. Accuracy is outstanding, recoil is very tolerable, and barrel life should be nearly as good as the BR's. Even though the little Lapua 6.5 doesn't produce the velocity with heavies that the 6.5x284 will, performance in the wind with 130s & 140s beats the best I can get out of the Dasher by a comfortable margin.
I've shot my Dashers at 1000 several times, and have never been disappointed with their performance. However, I think an excellent option for you would be a Savage w/factory 6BR bbl, plus a custom bbl. in 6.5x47.
You will have to adjust your scope a bit for a change in point of impact, but the actual accuracy will remain the same as long as you have reinstalled the barrel properly. I have actually had the barrel off my Savage a few times for various reasons and the accuracy has remained the same.
Switch barrel rifles are actually pretty popular, and lots of people do it so they keep the same base rifle and can swap caliber to what serves them best for a certain purpose.
If you were to have a 6BR and a 6.5x47 barrel for the rifle, I think you could end up with a very accurate and versatile rifle, capable of covering almost any task from 100 to 1000yards with nothing more than a barrel swap that will take 15-20 minutes.
Switch barrel rifles are actually pretty popular, and lots of people do it so they keep the same base rifle and can swap caliber to what serves them best for a certain purpose.
If you were to have a 6BR and a 6.5x47 barrel for the rifle, I think you could end up with a very accurate and versatile rifle, capable of covering almost any task from 100 to 1000yards with nothing more than a barrel swap that will take 15-20 minutes.
I'll probably get run out of here but so be it.
They are both good rifles! For an all around switch barrel I would prefer the Remington...if for no other reason than the superior triggers that are available for it...but thats not the only reason. I believe that they are a superior design all around, safety considered in with that. They (Remington) feel more solid to me and I like the feel of the action when in use better than the Savage. Neither are true out of the box precision target actions, but in the long run, my choice would be the 40X, especially the 40XBR.
Mark
They are both good rifles! For an all around switch barrel I would prefer the Remington...if for no other reason than the superior triggers that are available for it...but thats not the only reason. I believe that they are a superior design all around, safety considered in with that. They (Remington) feel more solid to me and I like the feel of the action when in use better than the Savage. Neither are true out of the box precision target actions, but in the long run, my choice would be the 40X, especially the 40XBR.
Mark
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Markr,
I don't know why you would get run outta here I ask the question and you gave me your opinion,and I value it,Thank you.I have a deal where I can purchase a factory rifle not a custom,another story in itself.I have always been a rem fan I also think the hi end savages shoot fairley well as well.Why do you say the rem would make a better switch barrel rifle?
Wayne.
I don't know why you would get run outta here I ask the question and you gave me your opinion,and I value it,Thank you.I have a deal where I can purchase a factory rifle not a custom,another story in itself.I have always been a rem fan I also think the hi end savages shoot fairley well as well.Why do you say the rem would make a better switch barrel rifle?
Wayne.
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