Remington 223 firing pin strikes

[memo43]

I have a issue lately in developing a good target load for my 223 Remington that I want to use for FTR. I keep seeing the primers in what appear cratering. The Rifle is a Remigton 223 1:7 twist throated out to shoot 80smk at COAL of 2.500.
I have been workin gup loads using varget, Imr 4895, CFE 223, 8208 as well as BLC2. For brass I have lapua, winchester as well as LC.
I have been able to get speeds up to 2930 fps. But this being a 20" barrel I would rather not go as high.
I know pictures are worth a 1000 words, but my work computer doesnt allow me to resize the image.
My question is those who have shot/use remigtons do your primers look cratered.
I havent seen any pressure signs or ejector swipes. The primers dont appear to be flattened. so this is driving me crazy. thanks in advanc for the input

 

[Swift4Yotes]

I am no expert but I know primers can crater and appear to show pressure early if the firing pin hole is a little big or sloppy and they can be bushed back down. Just a though.

 

[memo43]

Here is an attached picture of what the primers look like, this is with a mild load and gave me 2500 ish fps with an 80 grain smk

 

[Swift4Yotes]

Are those bolt face marks on the head stamp area? I think some guys mic the brass at the base area and compare it before fired dimension. Once again I am no expert but have doing quite a bit of research trying to gain some knowledge so take all this with a grain of salt. As to the cratering, ya I would call that a crater lol!

 

[memo43]

The marks on the headstamp where already there. I get the same primer impresions on new brass as well.

 

[Swift4Yotes]

Any extractor marks? See if the firing pin hole looks sloppy or chamfered.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Headspace issue? (case too short for the chamber,firing pin hits primer pushing case forward, primer goes bang and tries to move out of pocket while sending case back against bolt face causing dished surface)
Same issue after brass has been fireformed to chamber? (if you havn't pushed the shoulder back too far)
See if fired brass will chamber. If so, neck size and see if you get the same issue.

 

[memo43]

All thanks for the responce i will look at the bolt face and see if the firing pin hole looks sloppy or chamfered.
I will try an rechamber the fired brass to see if i can get the bolt to close. But why wold i get these marks even on virgin brass.

 

[SS427]

I have a Remington VSSF II .223 and the fired primers out of it looks identical to yours, regardless of hot or mild load. I had the same concerns you have.

I've been told the firing pin hole should be bushed. But I've yet to pierce a primer with this rifle and I have about 2,000 rounds through it. It shoots exceptionally well, so up to this point I've left well enough alone.

Until recently all I ever did was neck size with the occasional bump, so I know my problem wasn't a headspace issue.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Headspace issue!! Case too short for chamber. Round goes BANG, case gets slammed back against the bolt face. Gets marked.
Brass is softer than bolt face.

 

[L.Sherm]

What kind of primers are you using?

 

[memo43]

Been using federal Gm205 primers as well as winchester primers

 

[memo43]

NorcalMikie, when you say headspace issue are you refering to the overall case length or the sholder datum line. All the brass i have shot out of the rifle so far has been virgin brass.
I dont recall of the top of my head what my trim to length is but I am pretty close to minimun I want to say 1.750.
I know I am not jammed into the lands, in fact I have a 20 thou jump.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Not an issue with the OAL of the case. It's where the shoulder is compared to the chamber.(too far back and the case can move)
If in fact the case is too short (headspace) and the shoulder is pushed back too far (from full length resizing or too short from the start) (virgin) when it gets fired, it has to go somewhere. Back against the bolt face usually. And the primer will try to back out because there's a space between the bolt face and the case head. Dished primers!! or even pierced.
If you "load long" and jam, the jammed bullet will hold the case back against the bolt face so it gets a full fireform.
Could take a couple of firings?
One you get the case to fit the chamber, make sure you don't push the shoulder back (again) too far when resizing. Easy to do if you arn't watching and you'll see those problems all over again. Resize "just enough" so the fired case will rechamber. Neck size, replace the primer, load up and go shooting.
We've all been thru the same thing so it's NO BIG DEAL!! You'll learn something from it I guarantee. 8)
No expert, just been there, done that and learned a little along the way. Mike.

OAL is another story. Figure out what you're dealing with now, get that squared away, then go after the OAL.

 

[memo43]

NorCalmike thanks for the further explanation I understand it now. After all the reloading an comp shooting this is the one rifle that has gotten be puzzled. Then again that's why I like this place, always learn something new

 

[pdog]

NorCalMikie is correct concerning head space. This is critical for primers and safety.

Once your head space is correct do yourself a favor and send your bolt to Gre-Tan to have the firing pin hole bushed and the firing pin turned. (or bushed and just buy a Gre-Tan firing pin assembly) I have worked on accurizing dozens of Rem 700's and will not even begin to load test anymore without having this done to the bolt and firing pin. Best money you will ever spend on your Remington. If you have primer problems after this then you have the wrong primer or a very hot load.
pdog

 

[jonbearman]

I had one that did it way worse than you are seeing with starting loads. I sent it to gre-tan and had it back in 7 days. It works great now. More than likely it has a lot to do with what you are seeing. You could have oversized brass meaning it would be short from datum line to the base and that can cause headaches. I would get it bushed regardless.

 

[Scott Harris]

I have a Remington VSSF II .223 and the fired primers out of it looks identical to yours, regardless of hot or mild load. I had the same concerns you have.

I've been told the firing pin hole should be bushed. But I've yet to pierce a primer with this rifle and I have about 2,000 rounds through it. It shoots exceptionally well, so up to this point I've left well enough alone.

Until recently all I ever did was neck size with the occasional bump, so I know my problem wasn't a headspace issue.

+1

Remingtons tend to crater the primer at safe loads. Fix is to get the firing pin bushed....Gre-Tan is the place to send your bolt.

 

[memo43]

Thanks to all the responces I guess the next step is to send the bolt to Gre-Tan an have the firing pin bushing treatment.
An the quest for load development continues. Once I'm satisfied with the test results I will make sure to do a write up on my findings.
hopefully the picture of the best group so far shows up
Again thanks for all the help

 

[CatShooter]

Been using federal Gm205 primers as well as winchester primers

You do not have a pressure problem.

Federal primers have thin cups, and your firing pin hole is over sized. You might consider switching to CCI 450 or Rem 7-1/2 next time.

Just neck size the cases and enjoy it.

This is NOT black magic.