Remage POI shift?

[Monday shooter40]

I just rebarreled one of my Remington 700 short actions with a remage style barrel. Factory barrel was a heavier contour (.800ish) 24" 6.5 CM. New Barrel is a 26" SS M24 contour 6.5 CM and I bought one of badgers maximized recoil lugs. I put 5 rounds through the new barrel and my POI moved up 5+ mils @ 100 yds. Now I can't get enough travel out of my scope (Bushnell Forge 4.5-27) to zero the rifle. It has a 20 moa base. I've never encountered such a drastic shift from a barrel change in my other rifles, but this is my first Remage . I'm going to tear everything back down and start over. Any ideas to look out for would be appreciated.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I just rebarreled one of my Remington 700 short actions with a remage style barrel. Factory barrel was a heavier contour (.800ish) 24" 6.5 CM. New Barrel is a 26" SS M24 contour 6.5 CM and I bought one of badgers maximized recoil lugs. I put 5 rounds through the new barrel and my POI moved up 5+ mils @ 100 yds. Now I can't get enough travel out of my scope (Bushnell Forge 4.5-27) to zero the rifle. It has a 20 moa base. I've never encountered such a drastic shift from a barrel change in my other rifles, but this is my first Remage . I'm going to tear everything back down and start over. Any ideas to look out for would be appreciated.

Hmmm??? Interesting, in that I've had the very same kind of POI move on my .308 when I recently changed from a 24" Krieger heavy sporter (,750" muzzle) to a 26" Krieger Heavy Target (.900" muzzle). I was surprised and don't really know the why's. I'm guessing it mostly has something to do with a difference in the barrel's threading. . . ???

 

[NorCalMikie]

Thinner barrel moves more than a fatter barrel. Kinda like girls. You're starting all over again.

 

[clowdis]

Your problem could be related to the barrel install, but if you have a 20moa rail on the rifle you are raising the bullet impact 20" (or something close to that) at 100 yards. A lot of scopes won't compensate for that. It's a long range rail and not normally suited for 100 yard shooting.

 

[AlNyhus]

While I'm not a fan of the whole RemAge lash up, I doubt that your POI shift is indicative of anything to do with the new barrel installation. It's likely just where the new barrels bore at the muzzle points to as well as the vibration pattern of the new barrel.

For doing 100 yd. load work, you can shim the rail (although that reduces the rail/receiver contact area), shim between the bottom of one ring and the scope tube (not my preference but it can work) or swap to a set of Burris Signature rings with the offset plastic inserts to move the POI down. Given the price, a swap to a -0- MOA rail for load work would be a lot simpler, though. After the load work was done, swap to the 20 MOA rail, rezero at the longer yardage and you'll have it.

Just one way to deal with it, FWIW.

Good shootin'. -Al

 

[jelenko]

Hmm. Just to confirm, the 5 shots were all at/near the same point of impact?
When I first read the OP, I took it that the first shot was much lower than the fifth/last shot.

If all 5 shots were at the same POI, did you have the 20MOA rail on before it was rebarrel? 5 mils is ~ 18 MOA.
If the 20 MOA rail was being used on this rifle before rebarreling, you might try another recoil lug - maybe the current one wasn't machined square.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Thinner barrel moves more than a fatter barrel. Kinda like girls. You're starting all over again.

Yeah, you're right. . . and I understood that. I just didn't expect as much of a shift as I got.

 

[Bob3700]

While I'm not a fan of the whole RemAge lash up, I doubt that your POI shift is indicative of anything to do with the new barrel installation. It's likely just where the new barrels bore at the muzzle points to as well as the vibration pattern of the new barrel.

For doing 100 yd. load work, you can shim the rail (although that reduces the rail/receiver contact area), shim between the bottom of one ring and the scope tube (not my preference but it can work) or swap to a set of Burris Signature rings with the offset plastic inserts to move the POI down. Given the price, a swap to a -0- MOA rail for load work would be a lot simpler, though. After the load work was done, swap to the 20 MOA rail, rezero at the longer yardage and you'll have it.

Just one way to deal with it, FWIW.

Good shootin'. -Al

Al,
Agree, all bbls. have a curve to them and this one (once torqued in place) is curved up. Your two solutions are what I would suggest.
This just validates the idea of indexing bbls when you chamber/fit them to the action. Guess the OP is sort of lucky that the POI shift is vertical instead of horizontal. Using up that much windage could be an issue during a match!
Bob

 

[Monday shooter40]

To all. All 5 shots were close together and the only thing that I changed was the barrel and recoil lug. Everything else has been on the rifle and I've been shooting PRS matches with this rifle for about 2 years.

 

[DaveTooley]

Torqueing the barrel should not change the POI. If it does then there are issues with the machine work on the nut and the barrel threads. My guess is it was done in a CNC machining center with no regard to bore alignment. Shimming the base to tune the rifle is a band aid covering up the real problem.

 

[tobnpr]

It's likely just where the new barrels bore at the muzzle points

Well, could be- but if it is, it's one hell of a shit barrel.
I never index muzzles, and never have a problem. I know other smiths swear by it, I'm not one of them.

5 mils at 100 yards?? That's a foot and half, for cripes sake. Not even in the universe of what is acceptable IMO from even any factory barrel much less an aftermarket.

Simple enough to pull the barrel, check and make sure the receiver and nut mating surfaces are clean and reinstall. If that doesn't help, I'd request a replacement barrel.

 

[jelenko]

Well, could be- but if it is, it's one hell of a shit barrel.
I never index muzzles, and never have a problem. I know other smiths swear by it, I'm not one of them.

5 mils at 100 yards?? That's a foot and half, for cripes sake. Not even in the universe of what is acceptable IMO from even any factory barrel much less an aftermarket.

Simple enough to pull the barrel, check and make sure the receiver and nut mating surfaces are clean and reinstall. If that doesn't help, I'd request a replacement barrel.

I'm thinking the same.
The easy/cheap things to try are a different recoil lug and a different barrel nut.

Thinking about it, I'd call whoever supplied the barrel to get them started on the issue if it isn't the nut or lug. I would expect a replacement for a barrel that's 18 moa 'off'.

 

[Monday shooter40]

Thanks guys. I'm going to remove the barrel, check/inspect everything and reinstall. If nothing changes, I will do it again but with a different recoil lug. And again with another barrel nut if necessary. I didn't think this much POI shift was "normal".

 

[AlNyhus]

Will be interesting to see where the POI is after checking/inspecting and reinstalling. Are you using an actual head space gauge or a piece of brass to set head space?

Looking forward to your results. -Al

 

[wwbrown]

I am confused, I am not a gunsmith although I do thread and chamber my own barrels (shouldered installs not Remage style) so I may know a tiny bit about that process.

How does a gunsmith/manufacture index Remge when producing them without the individual action they will be installed on? The headspacing of most factory rifles are not held to a high tolerance so the rotational indexing of the barrel will be dependent upon the action's headspace not how the barrel was machined.

Did I miss something about Remage barrel installs?

 

[coldboreshot]

This may have some similarity... A while back I purchased a Savage BVSS in .223 and upon first load developing and factory ammo application, I discovered the rifle shot way-low. ( Was using a 0 cant scope base at the time), I notified Savage that day at the range and explained the situation. The rifle was returned to Savage and later was sent back with a new barrel, made in the custom shop. Now, they did not explain in detail other than expressing the barrel was made in the custom shop. Since the majority of factory barrels are already rifled and contoured, I'm suspected machining error in the threading or truing. That does not necessarily rule out the barrel itself but I agree here that you might want to give heads-up to the barrel maker as well. The mfg where I get my barrels is very receptive to fielding concerns.

 

[coldboreshot]

Torqueing the barrel should not change the POI. If it does then there are issues with the machine work on the nut and the barrel threads. My guess is it was done in a CNC machining center with no regard to bore alignment. Shimming the base to tune the rifle is a band aid covering up the real problem.

I would consider Dave's input here. I was the victim of a chambering job on a barrel which was done in this sense. It looked impressive until it went of the gun. It was so wacked, I could have assisted a shooter in the lane next to me, score a 200-?x during a match. Talk about the ultimate cross-fire.

 

[Monday shooter40]

Will be interesting to see where the POI is after checking/inspecting and reinstalling. Are you using an actual head space gauge or a piece of brass to set head space?

Looking forward to your results. -Al

I have real gauges. Got it all apart. I don't see anything out of whack yet. I don't like how loose the threads on the barrel nut are to the barrel threads, but I can't say its wrong. I've had savages that felt similar.... I really hope this barrel isn't garbage. I have the worst luck with this particular rifle.

 

[Monday shooter40]

Considering a call to Northland and getting a barrel nut a recoil lug from James..... I've had great luck with those on my savages.

 

[AlNyhus]

A facing cut on the front of the receiver would be worth doing when it's apart. A 12FV that I had apart recently took .008 to square it up. Assuming the back of the barrel nut is flat (big assumption even on the aftermarket ones ), the thread fit of the barrel to receiver isn't a big issue if you've got good flat-to-flat fit. Obviously, the lug is part of the picture too. Many of the after market lugs aren't what they're advertised to be in terms of flatness.

Again, looking forward to your results. -Al