Ive got kind of a dumb question. I dont know if i should just go with a Rem 700 in 243 or savage? Both factory for now but gonna swap out barrles and stocks the whole nine yards. they are about the same price. and another question, what is the diff between sps and cdl? just let me know what you guys think. its gonna be for 600 yard bench/fclass.
Rem or Savage?
- Thread starter Josh11
- Start date
Josh:
If it were me I would go with the Savage target action. That would be a bit more money but you would have a much better rifle and an action worth spending money on. I have a number of Remington rifles, and I like them, but it really is not worth putting a bunch of money into them. If you are going to do that you are much better off starting with either a custom action or at least the Savage target action. Now if you are just looking to get started and shooting for fun,not competition)that's OK. You would probably be better off buying which ever of those two you want then getting a competition rifle later. Just don't dump a bunch of money into a lower quality sporter rifle because you'll never get the money out of it that you would with a custom/target action. This is definitely a case where you get what you pay for. Another alternative is to buy a good used rifle. You can certainly find some excellent used rifles here in the classifieds. Also look at benchrest.com, sniper's hide, and shooter's corners. Best of luck. James
If it were me I would go with the Savage target action. That would be a bit more money but you would have a much better rifle and an action worth spending money on. I have a number of Remington rifles, and I like them, but it really is not worth putting a bunch of money into them. If you are going to do that you are much better off starting with either a custom action or at least the Savage target action. Now if you are just looking to get started and shooting for fun,not competition)that's OK. You would probably be better off buying which ever of those two you want then getting a competition rifle later. Just don't dump a bunch of money into a lower quality sporter rifle because you'll never get the money out of it that you would with a custom/target action. This is definitely a case where you get what you pay for. Another alternative is to buy a good used rifle. You can certainly find some excellent used rifles here in the classifieds. Also look at benchrest.com, sniper's hide, and shooter's corners. Best of luck. James
Josh,
I just went through this. I have numerous remington arms. I just like them. However, I went with the savage for a number of reasons. I wanted something a little different than my other rifles. I liked the idea that I can change barrels later, I wanted a custom or semi custom stock. I liked the accu-trigger. I wanted it all to be stout without a doubt.
I decided to go with a Savage precision target action right port right eject - single shot.
I called around to several gunsmiths and decided to go with Kevin Rayhill. I'm lucky enough to live and work in the vicinity of a couple big name barrel makers. They are all nice and great people. Don't know why I just liked Kevin although I've never met him in person.
One thing you must know is the Savage synthetic stocks are horrible. If you were looking at one of the laminates, HS Precision, or Choate stocked guns then I'd say you have something to work with and build on later. I was originally going to go with the HS stocked gun, but after running some numbers with Kevin I went with his out of mold Prarie Dog Special stock.
The only MAJOR bummer with having a gunsmith built up a rifle for you is the wait. Mine is a 6BR.
Remember with the Savage if you get a stock and a barrel contour you like you can always have another barrel made to match the contour and fit your favorite stock. You can swap barrels yourself. That for me was really all it took.
Be honest with yourself. You'll have $400.00 in the action plus probably another $150 to have a smith true and time it plus maybe a couple other things. So you're at $550. Not too far from a Stiller, but again you'll need a smith to change barrels.
I'm stoked to get my Savage. Should be any day now.
Good luck,
Jeff
I just went through this. I have numerous remington arms. I just like them. However, I went with the savage for a number of reasons. I wanted something a little different than my other rifles. I liked the idea that I can change barrels later, I wanted a custom or semi custom stock. I liked the accu-trigger. I wanted it all to be stout without a doubt.
I decided to go with a Savage precision target action right port right eject - single shot.
I called around to several gunsmiths and decided to go with Kevin Rayhill. I'm lucky enough to live and work in the vicinity of a couple big name barrel makers. They are all nice and great people. Don't know why I just liked Kevin although I've never met him in person.
One thing you must know is the Savage synthetic stocks are horrible. If you were looking at one of the laminates, HS Precision, or Choate stocked guns then I'd say you have something to work with and build on later. I was originally going to go with the HS stocked gun, but after running some numbers with Kevin I went with his out of mold Prarie Dog Special stock.
The only MAJOR bummer with having a gunsmith built up a rifle for you is the wait. Mine is a 6BR.
Remember with the Savage if you get a stock and a barrel contour you like you can always have another barrel made to match the contour and fit your favorite stock. You can swap barrels yourself. That for me was really all it took.
Be honest with yourself. You'll have $400.00 in the action plus probably another $150 to have a smith true and time it plus maybe a couple other things. So you're at $550. Not too far from a Stiller, but again you'll need a smith to change barrels.
I'm stoked to get my Savage. Should be any day now.
Good luck,
Jeff
I'm going to offer a dissenting opinion here. I personally think the Remington 'fits' better in my hand. The triggers can be adjusted down as light as you need to fool with for a hunting rifle, and the Remington actions just seem to be 'smoother.' Don't kick as badly, either from my experience. Not that recoil will be an issue with the .243, but with some stocks, you never know. I've designed several custom rifles on the Remington actions. I've never had ONE Remington action that I couldn't get sub MOA groups from using factory rifles. Savages are accurate. They're cheaper for the most part,although they can go toe to toe with the most expensive Remingtons on the upper end). One other thing is that you can't always find certain parts for custom jobs made for Savage. Most of the time you can, but not always. But if you're planning to do some customizing later, know that 99.9%,if not 100%) of stock, action, trigger, etc. makers for aftermarket components DO make something to fit the Remington 700 action! That's the truth.
Do yourself a favor. Don't take anyone's word for it. YOU go down to a decent sized sporting goods store and ask to hold and work the actions on several different models of both Remington and Savage rifles. THEN decide for yourself which one FEELS better to YOU, in YOUR hands! Which one shoulders better, which one has the smoothest feeling action, which safety works better,has been an issue with some of the Savages I've owned!), and which one feels more solid. Finally, thinks about which one you'd rather carry on a hunt or hang on your wall. Accuracy of the two are tit for tat. Take it from someone who's owned not 1 or 2, but DOZENS of these rifles! THEORETICALLY, Savage actions are designed in what would seem to be a more 'accurate' design, but I've never been able to tell the difference on paper. Have 3 Remington rifles that one-hole with factory ammo... Don't get any better than that. See what you like after you compare both guns in YOUR hands!
Do yourself a favor. Don't take anyone's word for it. YOU go down to a decent sized sporting goods store and ask to hold and work the actions on several different models of both Remington and Savage rifles. THEN decide for yourself which one FEELS better to YOU, in YOUR hands! Which one shoulders better, which one has the smoothest feeling action, which safety works better,has been an issue with some of the Savages I've owned!), and which one feels more solid. Finally, thinks about which one you'd rather carry on a hunt or hang on your wall. Accuracy of the two are tit for tat. Take it from someone who's owned not 1 or 2, but DOZENS of these rifles! THEORETICALLY, Savage actions are designed in what would seem to be a more 'accurate' design, but I've never been able to tell the difference on paper. Have 3 Remington rifles that one-hole with factory ammo... Don't get any better than that. See what you like after you compare both guns in YOUR hands!
ChuckMiller
Silver $$ Contributor
Here's another dissenting opinion, regardless of what you hear the Rem 700 is the small block chevy of the shooting world. There are more aftermarket go fast goodies for the Rem 700 than any other centerfire action platform you can name. It will have a resale that is better than the Savage and you'll find more smiths that are up to speed on the Rem 700. As for any of the 2 manufacturers making a rifle that is more inherantly accurate than the other it's a toss up, they both make turds now and then and I have owned rifles from both that support the turd analogy. At this point I do own 2 Savages but the only Savage parts on them are the actions and frankly the barrel, stock, and trigger, in that order will have more to do with inherant accuracy than the action. It's hard for me to give Savage a lot of credit when I shoot small groups with a Shilen prefit, Rayhill stock, Rifle Basix trigger on my Savage action. I do give Savage credit for their agressive product offerings aimed at the target shooting crowd,LRPV) and for their barrel mounting design. I do have a LRPV and other than the factory stock there's not a lot out there. For a guy looking to do something like you described I would suggest a used Rem 700 Varmint in the HS stock. It's a proven design you can improve on cheaply, comes with a great stock and takes nothing to get a nice 2 lb trigger. Learn on it and then screw on a custom barrel. Heck you can sell that action, stock, and bottom metal alone for what your going to pay for it, you can't do that with a Savage.
I have both in F-Class configuration, and the Remington came first, but when I wanted to build a second, I went without hesitation to the Savage target action. Now I started from scratch, and wanted a build in 6mmBR. Yes, I could have bought a complete ready-to-go rifle for F-Open from Savage, but wanted a different stock and a particular brand of barrel to try, so I bought the action, barrel and stock separately. My personal reasons for the Savage were:
1. Solid bottom, single shot receiver.
2. Cost.
3. Ability to switch barrels myself,F-Class shooting is tough on barrels if you do it a lot).
4. Another benefit to the barrel arrangement is that I describe my new stick as the chassis, meaning I can swap calibers to experiment with at a much lower cost, and have the same stock and optics combination as I do so.
5. Even the factory Savages have been building a reputation for great accuracy among people more interested in performance than what their friends will say about the brand so mating that action to a custom barrel should be even better,it has been so, the thing shoots better than I hoped for even).
6. And lastly, I really *like* supporting a company that has been so supportive of competitive shooting sports lately,Savage Palma, F-TR, and both F-Open guns)
All things considered, were I in your place, looking for a 600 yd F-Class factory gun, and wanting one for the Open class, I would buy the Savage in 6BR. For one, I haven't researched all the factory twist rates for .243's, but would be surprised if they were in 1 in 8 for the heavy VLD bullets typically used for the longer range. Second, the 6mmBR is generally acknowledged to be one of, if not the primo round for 600yd match use. Third, the 6mmBR has quite superior barrel life compared to the .243 for match grade accuracy,remember, the X-ring at 600 is about 3' in diameter).
Eric
1. Solid bottom, single shot receiver.
2. Cost.
3. Ability to switch barrels myself,F-Class shooting is tough on barrels if you do it a lot).
4. Another benefit to the barrel arrangement is that I describe my new stick as the chassis, meaning I can swap calibers to experiment with at a much lower cost, and have the same stock and optics combination as I do so.
5. Even the factory Savages have been building a reputation for great accuracy among people more interested in performance than what their friends will say about the brand so mating that action to a custom barrel should be even better,it has been so, the thing shoots better than I hoped for even).
6. And lastly, I really *like* supporting a company that has been so supportive of competitive shooting sports lately,Savage Palma, F-TR, and both F-Open guns)
All things considered, were I in your place, looking for a 600 yd F-Class factory gun, and wanting one for the Open class, I would buy the Savage in 6BR. For one, I haven't researched all the factory twist rates for .243's, but would be surprised if they were in 1 in 8 for the heavy VLD bullets typically used for the longer range. Second, the 6mmBR is generally acknowledged to be one of, if not the primo round for 600yd match use. Third, the 6mmBR has quite superior barrel life compared to the .243 for match grade accuracy,remember, the X-ring at 600 is about 3' in diameter).
Eric
if your planning on a rebarrel and new stock, then either way it doesn't matter. like one guy put it, 700's are the small block of the shooting world...but if your planning on shooting it for a while then get a savage i guarntee it will be more acurate; even howas out shoot most new remingtons. money wise if you can find a rem. varmint model with a h-s stock then jump on it. honestly it may be your best bet; unless you've got your heart set on a custom build. in my opinion the quality of remingtons has to crap and even the actions usually need to be trued for good rebarel job. savages have good options when it comes to rebarreling and a good rebarrel job can be had for a smaller $$$ than remington. i have a 700 adl .243 i've been thinking about selling for a while. i bought it with the same intentions as you. i liked it so much i bought another action for the build,6x47L) and i feel that it is a far better cartrige than a .243. i have no need for both and i don't know what it would take to sell a firearm over the internet, but if your intrested i can take some pictures for you.
I dont believe costs are the same, to rebarrel a rem your probably looking at $500-550 and a savage prefit barrel runs around 300. I did buy my savages with the intention of rebarreling and changing which is a mistake in my opinion when looking for max accuracy/consistency and long heavy barrels. Id probably go with a lawton or other lower priced stainless target action.
Ok, I agree by far the savage target action is the way to go. However, after just putting on a pre-fit barrel folks should know that one needs the proper tools to do a quality job. I would say you need at leat the following:
A go gage, barrel nut wrench, barrel or action vise,or both) these tools will cost you over $200 unless you make or improvise some of them yourself. The good thing is once you have them you can swap barrels as much as you want for the cost of the barrel.
I made my barrel vise and action wrench and saved some money. I was told by many using just a large vise is a mistake and could ruin your action.
A go gage, barrel nut wrench, barrel or action vise,or both) these tools will cost you over $200 unless you make or improvise some of them yourself. The good thing is once you have them you can swap barrels as much as you want for the cost of the barrel.
I made my barrel vise and action wrench and saved some money. I was told by many using just a large vise is a mistake and could ruin your action.
This is just personal. I owned Remingtons before even thinking about a Savage. I now own more Savages than Remingtons and will always buy a Savage over a Remington. I like to do my own work and with a Savage I can. By the way the two Remingtons I have are for sale, but none of my Savages are. My Savages shoot lights out also. Hope this helps.
shoot strait
teele1
shoot strait
teele1
I used oak blocks to break my nut loose, I had to make the blocks fit the action as it was to much torque for the smaller diameter of the barrel not to mention tapered. My blocks were from an oak end table someone threw away. A actual vise would be great but i dont believe its absolutely necessary with the savages. I put as much as possible in my bench vise and then a c clamp on the other side. Once removed you will not be tightening as tight as the factory. Supposidly the factory tightens them to 70ft# and you should only be tightening them to 40ft#. You could probably even make an entire length action vise out of wood with 1/4 piece of steel top and bottom and it would be very suitable for removing nuts and holding the actions securly for tinkering. I did not use the go gauge either as i just headspaced to a piece of resized brass from my dies so the headspace should match my dies, But i will be picking up a go gauge next time i order stuff, i want to say the forster gauges are only about $20. The pitfall of the savages is removing the stupid scope, as the wrench will not always fit. If you could get someone to make you a nut wrench with the same configuration on both ends so you could use one end as sold for stuborn nuts and use the other as an opended wrench you would be in great shape.
Josh11, buy a SAVAGE!!!I own 4 of them and they all shot either equal with my Remingtons or better. Yes my Remingtons are built by people like Gre-Tan Rifles,Pac-nor, and such and they did not come cheap, But my Savages did and they shoot great. The last time I checked the smoothness of the action didn't have anything to do with the accuracy. My Remingtons are also for sale. Any takers?:lol:
I don't understand the hype on the barrel nut or why anyone thinks its easier to change barrels on a savage than a Remington. with a savage every time you change barrels you have to set your head-space. With a Remington the head-space is already set just screw it to the shoulder and shoot! You can take a barrel off a Remington a hundred times and every time you put it back on the head-space is exactly the same. good luck doing that with your barrel nut. when i see Bat, kellbys, or Nesika start using a barrel nut or stop using a Remington trigger carriers I might start looking at a savage. Other than the Availability of pre chambered barrels I don't see an advantage.
gatewood:
I understand your point and agree about it being easier to swap barrels once they have been chambered to fir you rifle. The problem is that you need a lathe to chamber the barrel,most of us don't have one) or you have to send your rifle/actuion to a gunsmith and wait,often for many months) to get the barrel chambered. I don't know about you but that is a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage to the Remington to me.
I understand your point and agree about it being easier to swap barrels once they have been chambered to fir you rifle. The problem is that you need a lathe to chamber the barrel,most of us don't have one) or you have to send your rifle/actuion to a gunsmith and wait,often for many months) to get the barrel chambered. I don't know about you but that is a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage to the Remington to me.
Buy which ever one makes you happy. I have both. And my savages shoot like no other stock rifles people at the range have ever seen. It might have something to do with me and my loading practices. But i love to say 'Yep I paid 400 bucks for that 2506' and it shoots in the 1's. And dont ever let someone tell you you need a short action. Cause I dont. My best group with a 100gr. bullet is .134 with a pretty fouled bore. So that old gun might do better in the future. And if you need anything for a savage go to SharpShooter.com and never look back. Remember this as a savage shooter dont be a snob like the other guys with the big dollar guns just make them wish they had a savage. HAHAHAHAHA
Not unlike the 'Chevy versus Ford' arguments/discussions that have been going on for almost a century now, and will never be 'decided', since the answer is based on personal preference. I have models of both Rem 700s and Savages: they all have their good and bad points. Try 'one-of-each' and form your own opinion, and have a lot of fun along the way.
have 2 savage lapv's..a 22-250 & a 6mm br..both shooters out of the box, once i got the right load )..wanted a 243 varmint / deer rifle in l/h..got a 700 sps..stock is a flex-a-matic & the x-pro trigger would go to 3lbs..below that was a problem..shot 3/4 to 1 in @ 100m..bought a h-s stock l/h varmint stock..$350 & a jewel l/h trigger w/ bolt release..$235..the trigger would fit, but the bolt release would'nt work..gunsmith for $50 to install..skim bedded the action & lapped the bore w/ jb..varget & a 70gr sierra hpbt shoot .5 5 shot group @ 100m..but $550 + $350+235+50-$50,sold the rem trigger)=$1135 for a remington to shoot & feel the way i want..never again..i'll build a custom savage for the same money..no wonder Remington i losing money
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
My first rifle was a Savage 110, now I have nothing but Remington 700's and Remington 700 clones custom actions and would never buy a Savage again.
I thought I liked it until I wanted to replace the trigger, what a pain,springs, pins, levers, etc.) Then I wanted to glass bed the action, well, all the trigger linkage crap is hanging right by the rear action screw, so all I could do is glass bed the recoil lug. Now the rear action screw is hard to keep tight because of the nice plastic trigger guard that Savage used on the 110's. Don't get me wrong, it shoots good, but just don't want to go through the pain again of working on it.
If you think all the custom action builders are wrong, then get a Savage. I have yet to see a custom action labeled 'Savage Clone'
Just my $.02
-X3M
I thought I liked it until I wanted to replace the trigger, what a pain,springs, pins, levers, etc.) Then I wanted to glass bed the action, well, all the trigger linkage crap is hanging right by the rear action screw, so all I could do is glass bed the recoil lug. Now the rear action screw is hard to keep tight because of the nice plastic trigger guard that Savage used on the 110's. Don't get me wrong, it shoots good, but just don't want to go through the pain again of working on it.
If you think all the custom action builders are wrong, then get a Savage. I have yet to see a custom action labeled 'Savage Clone'
Just my $.02
-X3M
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.