Rem 700 RAR question

[WSnyder]

There's a detent that holds the firing pin?

Probably referring to cocking piece detent. He's likely feeling the hitch you get on a factory bolt there.

 

[DShortt]

There's a detent that holds the firing pin?

I'm probably not using the correct term. When the bolt is in the action and the bolt opened, the firing pin is retracted into the bolt body and when the action is fully open a part of the pin/sear assembly seats into a detent on the bolt shroud.

 

[DShortt]

Probably referring to cocking piece detent. He's likely feeling the hitch you get on a factory bolt there.

Exactly right. Couldn't remember the correct verbiage.

Edit to add - while that hitch is detectable, the problem I originally noticed is later in the bolt handle travel. Which makes me think it probably is the unbroken, sharp edges on the lugs.
Based on what I've read and heard when talking to fellow shooters, these are the type if things they are referring to when wearing in or seating in is mentioned. I'd just prefer to address it now rather than tolerate it for an unknown cycle count.

 

[Sniperhandle]

I'm guessing the leading edges should just be lightly broken with a stone?

It's hard to get a good view with the barrel on, but there is a 'ramp' on the leading edge of both lugs. However, at the transition from the end of the 'ramp' to the edge of the lug, that edge is sharp and unbroken also.
So it seems quite plausible that the 2 sharp edges are catching on one another just a bit.
Good thing is, the lug contact looks even on both sides, given what little contact the lugs have had.
Again, this is an unfired action apart from whatever the factory may have done.

Cover the whole thing in Dykem, Then insert it and work it open and closed, All the places that are touching will be in the white.

A quick spray with Brakleen will remove all of it.

 

[AlNyhus]

Are you doing this with a trigger in or out of the action?

 

[DShortt]

Are you doing this with a trigger in or out of the action?

With the trigger installed.

 

[DShortt]

So to update this, I finally got the opportunity to dress the edges of the bolt lugs. I couldn't tell much, if any difference.
Worked the action quite a few times and discovered that the bolt is actually getting pulled forward and further compressing the firing pin spring a fair amount when I am at the point of the interference. I didn't measure it, but I'm confident in saying it's in the neighborhood of .030".
If I put fairly significant forward pressure on the bolt handle and compress the spring that way, the interference and noise is gone.
I discovered this last evening and haven't conceived of the explanation/cause as yet.

Anyone have any ideas? *Might* be something in the bolt shroud. I don't think it's related to the cocking piece or trigger unless something within the shroud is catching the cocking piece.

As I think AINyhus was eluding to, I probably need to remove the trigger assembly and try it again.

 

[AlNyhus]

Try it while holding the trigger lever back and see how it shakes out.-Al

 

[DShortt]

Try it while holding the trigger lever back and see how it shakes out.-Al

I did try that, and there is no difference. I'm leaning towards something on the cocking piece and bolt shroud binding as the bolt and shroud rotate towards the closed position. But I'm pretty OCD when it comes to working on problems. I want to identify the issue beyond doubt, then make corrections and test the result.
Nothing irritates me more than to address the same issue twice.

 

[LVLAaron]

Pull the firing pin assembly out and run just the naked bolt.

 

[WSnyder]

but I'm confident in saying it's in the neighborhood of .030".

You are describing perfectly normal Remington cock on close with the bolt transitioning over the cocking ramps to the lug abutments. If it bugs you that much you’ll have to send it to someone to recut the cocking cam along with the associated firing pin, cocking cam (edit: cocking piece) work.

 

[DShortt]

You are describing perfectly normal Remington clock on close. If it bugs you that much you’ll have to send it to someone to recut the cocking cam along with the associated firing pin, cocking cam work.

Ugh.

OK, thank you for that information. I'll look into it.

I wouldn't mind some interference/effort. This is way more than I want to base a project on however.

It wouldn't matter in the field. Gonna make my eyes cross on a bench though.

Probably putting lipstick on a pig to sum it up.

 

[WSnyder]

It wouldn't matter in the field. Gonna make my eyes cross on a bench though.

For a field rifle yes, clock on close is generally fine (some still don’t like it though). Borden still builds his field oriented actions with clock on close as do many others.

 

[DShortt]

Pull the firing pin assembly out and run just the naked bolt.

So with the firing pin assembly out, the naked bolt travels and falls freely.
If I apply rearward pressure, like the preload pressure when the pin assembly is installed, I can detect the problem area.
Guess I'll have to remove the barrel so I can actually see the lugs. Apparently, there's a rough spot in the lug area somewhere.
At least I know where the issue is now.

 

[Sniperhandle]

You may be able to put your teslong with the 50 cal mirror up in there and look around, Also the Dykem will show you where the problem is too.

 

[DShortt]

You may be able to put your teslong with the 50 cal mirror up in there and look around, Also the Dykem will show you where the problem is too.

I tried to look with the Teslong, but can't see well enough to tell anything useful.
The bolt head still has a significant amount of bluing on it, and I don't see any wear areas on it. Tried applying Dykem and I can't even tell it's on there, so that's not helpful either.

 

[Walt Krafft]

1- looks like the action is not lubed. Grease the lugs and cocking cam and lightly oil the bolt body.
2- cock on close is common and some is needed.
3- are you really expecting a $500 action to be as smooth and refined as a $1500 action?

 

[DShortt]

1- looks like the action is not lubed. Grease the lugs and cocking cam and lightly oil the bolt body.
2- cock on close is common and some is needed.
3- are you really expecting a $500 action to be as smooth and refined as a $1500 action?

No. What I'm trying to determine is, is this normal for a 700 action? I expect some effort to operate the bolt. This seems excessive. But I've nothing to compare it to. So I asked here because I've seen 700 actions discussed a lot. But I've never noticed this being mentioned.
The bolt was lubed. I removed the oil and grease to get a clear shot of the bolt lugs.

 

[LVLAaron]

Gonna need a video

 

[Edd]

I believe the noise is caused by the bolt lugs and ramps on the front of the action not being in perfect time with each other. When one lug clears the ramp the bolt jumps sideways and hits the receiver. Alex Wheeler has talked about this. When you get the barrel removed, you can watch the front of the bolt and see what is happening.

Good luck getting them synchronized.