Rem 700 / 223 not grouping / what to do?

[markT]

I took out my first Varmint rifle today and shot some groups.. @120 yds the best was 1.75". The rifle has probably 2000 to 3000 rounds thru it.. Rem 700 short action / Stainless Steel fluted bbl..
I have probably 1000 hand loads worked up.. 40 gr Vmax with H322..
Now what should I do? Do a remage in 223? I use the rifle for praire dog shooting... I don't want to switch to 20 cal.. Should I just order a new bbl in 223 and install it?
Thanks for any input / suggestions etc..

 

[Tommie]

Since you are a poodle shooter, it’s likely that the barrel has seen some prolonged fire. Certainly possible the bore is washed out. If the barrel used to shoot well and you’ve tried the usual adjustments in new load development, a new barrel might be a smart move.

 

[jakelly]

Have you looked at the throat with a bore scope?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Proper research on how to work up handloads for a rifle would be the first step...

 

[LCazador]

I took out my first Varmint rifle today and shot some groups.. @120 yds the best was 1.75". The rifle has probably 2000 to 3000 rounds thru it.. Rem 700 short action / Stainless Steel fluted bbl..
I have probably 1000 hand loads worked up.. 40 gr Vmax with H322..
Now what should I do? Do a remage in 223? I use the rifle for praire dog shooting... I don't want to switch to 20 cal.. Should I just order a new bbl in 223 and install it?
Thanks for any input / suggestions etc..

I just recently bought a Remington 700 VLS Varmint for $395. Tupper ware stock. I needed something to shoot up some 2000 rounds of ammo that was given to me. I was amazed how well it shot! I put a few hundred of those prairie poodles away! I pillar bedded the cheap camo colored stock and put a Jewell trigger on it. It averages 1/2 inch with just about everything I put through it. Sell your rifle for action and stock and buy one of these. By the way since Remington is under siege you may see even better prices soon.

 

[K22]

Even at 3000 rounds, the barrel should still have varmint level accuracy remaining IF the barrel was not damaged by improper cleaning, inadequate cleaning allowing excessive copper build up, or a preponderance of shots fired in rapid succession eroding the throat.

My Rem 700, Varmint Model, with the bedding block equipped stock still holds a 1/2 moa accuracy at an exact round count of 3,205 so I wouldn't jump to giving up on the barrel just yet especially if your rifle is adequately bedded.

After checking all the screws for tightness and assuming you have a quality scope, the first thing I'd do is try some load development after I determine the twist in the rifle. My rifle has a 12" twist and prefers 50 to 55 grain bullets. If you have a faster twist it may prefer heavier (longer) bullets. I don't have any experience with bullets lighter than 50 grains in the 223 Rem so I can't comment on the 40 grain Vmax.

I don't have any experience with H322 in the 223 but it's a suitable powder and should work. Bullets I have success with in the 223 Rem are Nosler BT's, Hornady V max, and Sierra Blitz bullets. Powders I've used that shot very well are H335, H4895, Varget, and Benchmark. Primers that I've had the most success with are Federal 205M match. These combo's seem to work in all my 223 Rem's (I have a bunch of them of different brands)

Once you've selected the components, i.e. primer, bullet, powder, and using published data for that bullet, I start at the lower powder charge and work up slowly in 1/2 grain increments watching for pressure signs. I use five shot groups, fired slowly from a cool barrel to evaluate a load's potential. Don't try to test too many loads in one range sessions as shooter fatigue can affect results.

Bullet seating depth can make a difference. I normally start at .020" off the lands assuming that length will fit the magazine and yield at least one bullet diameter inside the neck to provide for adequate bullet tension. Because of variation in bullet ogives, I do not load closer than .010" to the lands.

Don't vary more than one element at time during load development. If after a few load development attempts nothing improves you may want to have a qualified gunsmith examine the barrel and obtain advice if a barrel replacement is indicated - of course you could do this first and given the current state of component shortages this may be a good first step.

 

[Sundown]

Bore scope the barrel to see if it's carboned up...If so clean with a good carbon/copper cleaner. If it's shot out, get a new barrel.

 

[markT]

What's a decent bore scope? I can purchase to start...
The load I worked up years ago worked real well for a number of years and rounds.. The barrel could be dirty but shouldn't be too bad as I haven't really shot that many rounds thru it since last clean.. I'll clean and try it again. I tried two different scopes and got same results.. Bushnell with target dot and Nikon Buckmaster ( yuck for target).But same results..
This rifle has been really good in the past.. Rifle Basix trigger... Thank you..

 

[Ledd Slinger]

What's a decent bore scope? I can purchase to start...
The load I worked up years ago worked real well for a number of years and rounds.. The barrel could be dirty but shouldn't be too bad as I haven't really shot that many rounds thru it since last clean.. I'll clean and try it again. I tried two different scopes and got same results.. Bushnell with target dot and Nikon Buckmaster ( yuck for target).But same results..
This rifle has been really good in the past.. Rifle Basix trigger... Thank you..

I just upgraded to the Teslong rigid borescope with wifi adapter. Works on 20 cal and up. Pretty awesome

 

[joshb]

Everybody’s been raving over the Teslong borescope.$50, I think. A steal!

 

[DirtySteve]

Teslong bore scope.. I would really check your scope base screws, rings and action screws first..

 

[gambleone]

Have you tried adjusting the oal of your bullet since you have that many rounds down the tube?

 

[markT]

Action screws are tight. Base screws are tight. Scope rings are tight.
ammo has been load d for a number of years.

 

[David Milisock]

I took out my first Varmint rifle today and shot some groups.. @120 yds the best was 1.75". The rifle has probably 2000 to 3000 rounds thru it.. Rem 700 short action / Stainless Steel fluted bbl..
I have probably 1000 hand loads worked up.. 40 gr Vmax with H322..
Now what should I do? Do a remage in 223? I use the rifle for praire dog shooting... I don't want to switch to 20 cal.. Should I just order a new bbl in 223 and install it?
Thanks for any input / suggestions etc..

Have you tried defouling the bore?

 

[drover]

I took out my first Varmint rifle today and shot some groups.. @120 yds the best was 1.75". The rifle has probably 2000 to 3000 rounds thru it.. Rem 700 short action / Stainless Steel fluted bbl..
I have probably 1000 hand loads worked up.. 40 gr Vmax with H322..
Now what should I do? Do a remage in 223? I use the rifle for praire dog shooting... I don't want to switch to 20 cal.. Should I just order a new bbl in 223 and install it?
Thanks for any input / suggestions etc..

1 - What size groups did the rifle shoot before you took it out this time?
2 - Was anything changed on the rifle between the last time and this time - any screws loosened, scope change?
3 - If nothing was changed between sessions first check your action screws to be sure they are snug, check the scope mount base screws to be sure they are snug, check the scope rings to make sure they are snug.
4 - Clean the barrel to remove carbon and copper
5 - Use a good solid rest, it doesn't have to be mega dollar something as simple as homemade sandbags will work just fine.
6 - Put out some surveyors tape at 25/50/75 yards so you can be aware of what the wind is doing.
7 - Shoot a couple of 5 shot groups giving the gun time to cool between each 5 shot group.
8 - If it is still grouping poorly then beg, borrow or steal a different scope to see if you have a scope problem.
9 - If you want a borescope the Teslong can be found at Amazon for $50, they work amazingly well but they are better to judge how clean a barrel is than anything else. I have seen barrels that are alligatored 3 to 4 inches and they still shoot 1/2" groups, I have seen other barrels that looked near perfect that do not shoot well at all. So don't put a lot of faith in what you see with the borescope unless it is something really bad like missing lands, etc.

I get at least 6000 accurate rounds out of my 223 running 40 gr bullets at 3800 fps but I limit my shots to 10 in my heavy barrel before letting it settle back to ambient temperature and 5 shots in my sporter weight. Unless you abused the barrel badly it should still be shooting good.

drover

 

[grovey]

Clean it well.

 

[DogBuster]

Pac Nor is up & running again...........

 

[clowdis]

I think your barrel is the standard 12 twist as it comes from Remington. The 40 grain bullets like a 14 twist so if you're having a problem it's likely you're using a bullet that's too light for the twist of the barrel. Try some 55 grain bullets just to check things out, Ii think you'll see some improvement. 2-3000 rounds shouldn't shoot out a .223 barrel.

 

[KY_Windage]

I have several times fixed inexplcable inaccuracy like you are talking about simply by cleaning up the crown. It costs a few hundred bucks for a Manson recrown tool but it is some of the best money I ever spent, in terms of accuracy.

 

[markT]

@drover
1: I could shoot less than .75" groups with it. But I don't really shoot groups. I only make sure its hitting where I aim..
2: I did change out the stock back to factory stock. ( Remington)
3: all screws are tight, scope and base and action. I have several better scopes I can use.
4: I just started to clean it.. I ran 5 wet patches with Bore Tech and the last patch was black as the first.. So she is very dirty.. I'll keep cleaning.
What are using to get 3800 fps?
@clowdis: Yes I think it is 12 twist. I have some 50 gr Vmax and 53' gr Vmax I could try and load a few and see how it does..
I'm using 40 gr Vmax with 25.5 gr of H322.
I have some 50 gr Vmax and 53 gr Vmax bullets and for Powder: Varget, H322 and VihtaVuori ( N135)
Load suggestions for 50 or 53 gr Vmax?