Rem 700 22.250 headspace problem

[turner]

I've reloaded my 30+ year old 22.250, with the same 250 federal cases I bought with the rifle. I do a small pinch on the neck and single fire each round at targets and I'm good to go. No problems and have never full length sized them. I'm about medium on the powder, not looking for 4000fps but rather accuracy.

A friend wanted me to reload his 22.250 Remington. He brought over a ton of once-fired Remington Express cases fired in his 700 (in their original packaging). I match prepped his cases and followed my reloading procedures on 50 cartridges to start.

He only fired 7 rounds, complaining about hard bolt closing. On the 8th it just wouldn't close. We quit for the day.

Back home I stripped the bolt and used his rifle to check headspacing. Nearly every case from the original batch, once fired, was blown out and the bolt wouldn't close!

I'll now full length size and try again. Don't know what will happen when I check headspace on this iteration of reloading after second firing.

Any conjectures on what's going on?

I've ordered the Hornady Headspace tool set to help me debug. Maybe I should get a field gauge.
thanks in advance

 

[MrMajestic]

You sure they were fired in his rifle? Just brainstorming with you.

 

[turner]

Yes
He's a hunter. Uses his two rifles - 22.250 & a 270 to get the job done.
He has special allowances because he's an American Indian.
I believe him.

 

[wapiti25]

The chamber may not be round, not much you can do except to re-chamber. Get a set of Go and No-go gauges, check with the bolt striped of the firing pin. A "Gizzy" or other shoulder bump measuring tools will help to watch shoulder set back. A chamber cast may be required to see what is going on. Have you tried new brass in the gun?

 

[turner]

When we got home from the 'field' I took out the firing pin & the extractor so I could use his bolt & chamber to set up go & nogo sized/bumped cases & loaded rounds (55 grain noslers sans primer powder).

Used fl pacific die for case/shoulder go/nogo sizing and an RCBS Competition micrometer die for the bullet loaded go/nogo.

I can use my bullet comparator to read OAL on loaded but need the Hornaday to read headspace length. Then I can check against new, unfired as I just got some Lapua unfired.

I think it's the chamber but how do I tell Remington this? Don't I need a field gauge?

 

[jonbearman]

You don't necessarily need a field gage.I would get a go and no go.I found one 308 remmy VS rifle and it had almost incipient head separation on the first firing.I checked it with all three gages right up to field and the bolt handle just fell down on the field gage and we sent it back with 6 fired case's which they didn't even look at till I advised they do.They(Remington were going to send it back claiming it was in spec,needless to say they re-barreled it after that.I have also found some factory loaded brass with an induced headspace problem being they were over sized.This is rare but some slip by the qc people and it gets loaded.I would headspace check it and if it passes,throw away the over worked brass and start fresh.

 

[triggerhappy243]

I see nothing was said about either full length resizing or the use of a neck sizer die. which one was used? was there a crimp put on the bullet?

 

[SBS]

I once had a 7-08 with an out of round chamber. Rounds once fired in this rifle and then neck sized were very difficult to chamber unless you happened by accident to index the round where it had originally been fired. You can fire a round or two with new ammo, marking the rim with magic marker, say at 12 oclock position and then try chambering the empty brass with the same indexing and then at 3, 6 and 9 oclock. If it fails to chamber at any of the positions other than the one it was fired in, you have a badly out of round chamber. Mine was on a match rifle and after being set back, shot it in long range for several years, cleaning the 1000 yd. prone target occasionally.

 

[243winxb]

The bolt face may not be square to the chamber. But oval chamber is more likely. I am sure you checked, but just in case, is bullet being jammed into the rifling? COL to long? A FL sizing should fix the problem, unless the web area is expanded more than normal for some strange reason.

 

[CatShooter]

A friend wanted me to reload his 22.250 Remington. He brought over a ton of once-fired Remington Express cases fired in his 700 (in their original packaging). I match prepped his cases and followed my reloading procedures on 50 cartridges to start.

He only fired 7 rounds, complaining about hard bolt closing. On the 8th it just wouldn't close. We quit for the day.

Back home I stripped the bolt and used his rifle to check headspacing. Nearly every case from the original batch, once fired, was blown out and the bolt wouldn't close!

I'll now full length size and try again. Don't know what will happen when I check headspace on this iteration of reloading after second firing.

Any conjectures on what's going on?

I've ordered the Hornady Headspace tool set to help me debug. Maybe I should get a field gauge.
thanks in advance

I'd just like to qualify a few things, cuz your description is a bit colorful.

When you say a "Ton", I know you don't mean 2,000 pounds (at least, I hope not).... but really, how much brass did he bring... 50 pieces, 400 pieces, 2,000 pieces??

Are you sure it was all fired in HIS rifle? Most of the non-loading shooters I know, are still brass rats and keep other people's brass from the range, "just in case they might... ".

When you were loading, did you have his rifle with you, or did you just get his cases to load and return to him?

Have you ever just run his empty fired cases back through his rifle to see if the fired cases fit?

Getting Hornady's gauges or a field gauge will not help you solve this, since once the case is fired in "his" rifle, it makes no difference if the headspace is out, because the fired case is out the same amount (less a thou or three)... the big question is, IF these cases were fired in his rifle, why aren't they going back into the chamber that they came from.

They might be oval.. but if that is the case, then out of 8 rounds, statistically, at least a few should have chambered easily, cuz some should have been aligned properly - if all eight were hard to chamber, that pretty much eliminates oval chambers as the problem.

You need to deturmine of the fired cases go back into the rifle, and if ALL the cases were fired in this rifle, or if any of them are range pick-ups.

Solve these and the rest should be easy.

I would opine that taking brass to load and return, without having the rifle present to check fit and feeding, might not be a good idea to begin with.

 

[turner]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions.

We are in northern Ontario. He has access to lots of land and hunts several times a week.
He doesn't go to ranges. All the brass, 200 rounds, he gave me was new fired once in his rifle.

I had his rifle to determined COAL. I checked feeding because he uses a magazine. I guess I was unlucky as that particular case would chamber,
though I hadn't stripped the bolt and was unfamiliar with its close and lift and might have missed that it was hard.

I didn't have his rifle when I reloaded his rounds. I loaded up 50 to check out.

As I noted he only fired 7 reloaded rounds, complaining about hard bolt closing. On the 8th it just wouldn't close. We quit for the day.

Catshooter, I mentioned 'Back home I stripped the bolt and used his rifle to check headspacing. Nearly every case from the original batch,
once fired, was blown out and the bolt wouldn't close!'

I'm going to load 25 rounds using the settings I've gotten from his chamber.
I've locked the fl sizing die that I used to determine go/nogo chambering.
I'll seat 15 thousands off the lands.

We'll go to my range on Wednesday and see what happens with these cases.
I never thought about oval chamber.

 

[M-61]

That's all real good info. My first question is always 'Was the spent brass from his rifle?' People bring me brass to reload, I ask the question and the one answer I like the best is "Almost all of it!."

 

[bigedp51]

How old is the rife in question, two years ago I bought a new Remington 700 and one bolt lug was barely touching, meaning Remington quality has gone down hill.

Also do not rule out the brass you are checking, if one side of the case has a thinner case wall the brass can be warping when fired. This creates the warped banana shaped case, but this would have to be very bad to not let the bolt close.

If its not case related then the chamber would have to be really out of kilter to not allow a cartridge fired in this rifle to not chamber. Do you have any gauges to check runout/uniformity on the fired cases?

 

[CatShooter]

How old is the rife in question, two years ago I bought a new Remington 700 and one bolt lug was barely touching, meaning Remington quality has gone down hill.

It has ben my experence that the higher end Remingtons like the 40Xs (of course) but also the VSSF-IIs Sendero=IIs and others of that ilk, all have the pick of the crop in actions.

I bought a used 700 VFS (the one with the tan H-S stock, made in 2005) just because of the action - it is the finest and smoothest 700 action I have ever seen, including "blue printed" actions.

Howsomever, the $350 Rem 700s with the rubber stocks that I have seen at in Cabela's were pure, rattling garbage, that could never be brought to life.

So I guess it is like all things, the best cost more, and if you are willing to pay more, you get the best.

 

[bigedp51]

In the 1970s and 80s you had the Remington 700 ADL and BDL and both were high quality and the Remington 788 was the lower tier rifle.

None of the Rem 700 I had in the past had bolt that look like beavers chewed the bolt recess or had a bevel at the firing pin hole in the bolt face, meaning all 700 rifles were quality made back then.



But you are correct, the last 700 I bought was the cheaper rubber stocked version. I gave this 700 to my son because he does not reload and bought two Stevens 200 rifles that were much better made "AND"at the cheaper end of the Savage line.

But back to the OPs problem, I collect milsurp rifles and I have never in 46 years of reloading had a fired case that would not fit in the same chamber and some of these milsurps were in rough shape and over headspace limits. If this 700 in question is a new modle it speaks volumes about modern Remington quality.

 

[turner]

The rifle is less than 2 years old.
I don't have a concentricity gauge so hard to measure cartridge head/face for out of true bolt. I have a B-Square run-out cartridge gauge and dial indicator.
Cases look fine, with no measurable bulge.
I also rolled them on a flat surface and stood them up and again seemed fine.
I'll report back findings after shooting Wednesday. I'll fire new & reloads.
thanks again for the constructive comments.

 

[Innovative]

turner ........

The answer to your resizing problem is to always use a FL die, and set the die height "accurately". Take a close look at the Digital Headspace Gauge. It measures the exact clearance (at the shoulder) that YOUR handloads have in YOUR particular chamber.

 

[37Lincoln1]

I just love this thing.

Innovative Technologies Digital Headspace Gauge

 

[Barlow]

When I first started handloading in 1977. I was convinced that neck sizing was the best way to go, because it was formed to the chamber blah, blah, blah. Then I got into neck turning for use in factory sporter type rifles and found that to be more grief that it was worth. I did use the Lee Collet die for awhile, and though it works as advertised, you still have to set the shoulder back at some time and start over. Finally after reading and listening to some guys who I think know how to handload, I have settled on full length resizing every time, setting the shoulder back about .002, finding the sweet spot for bullet seating depth, finding an appropriate powder and primer, getting them as round as possible and spend more time shooting than worrying about .0005 lost or gained somewhere in the process. I guess what I am saying is get the Hornady or some headspace gauge and set your full length die up to get them to fit your chamber. Sorry for the rant, but I have found the full length system to be by far the best with the least grief. Barlow

 

[CatShooter]

When I first started handloading in 1977. I was convinced that neck sizing was the best way to go, because it was formed to the chamber blah, blah, blah. Then I got into neck turning for use in factory sporter type rifles and found that to be more grief that it was worth. I did use the Lee Collet die for awhile, and though it works as advertised, you still have to set the shoulder back at some time and start over. Finally after reading and listening to some guys who I think know how to handload, I have settled on full length resizing every time, setting the shoulder back about .002, finding the sweet spot for bullet seating depth, finding an appropriate powder and primer, getting them as round as possible and spend more time shooting than worrying about .0005 lost or gained somewhere in the process. I guess what I am saying is get the Hornady or some headspace gauge and set your full length die up to get them to fit your chamber. Sorry for the rant, but I have found the full length system to be by far the best with the least grief. Barlow

My experience has been just the opposite. I rarely FL size, and don't own a FL die for most of my rifles.

I have one BR rifle since 1975 and someone gave me 200 fired cases, and I had no way of sizing them to fit, and had to buy a FL die for it...