Reloading tecniques and work flow.

[Regnar]

Since Ive recently acquired a top of the line midrange f class rifle, I figured I would try and fine tune my reloading process. i knew my weak link was my scale. I just set up the new FX120I with Trickler.

Ao here is my process. any critique or reccomendations welcome.

New Brass.

Size brass
Trim to length
Turn shoulders
Tumble
Dry
Chamfur and deburr
Prime
Powder
Seat bullet.

I measure after every step where apropiate. i use mitutoyo dial caliper with rtz and a datum dial to measure shoulder, case length and cbto. i use ball calipers to measure necks. National match sizer and a WTC, Wilson seater. i use a 21st century lathe, a wilson trimmer, an arbor press, a t-7 and a rock chucker 2 for the wtc die, an Annealeze, fx120i and chargemaster.

On fired cases

Deprime on a decapper,
Anneal
Size
Tumble
Dry
Light chamfur
Prime
Powder
bullet

I measure or at least try to measure everything to .001. i weigh to the kernel. i use one led light while weighing charges.

Record everything. all brass is assigned batch numbers and kept together. all measuremnts and lot numbers are recorded.

So what am I doing wrong or what can I do better? Am I missing anything?

Thanks

 

[jepp2]

Probably not necessary, but additional steps I take:
- uniform primer pockets (makes for very consistent primer seating)
- debur flash hole
- sort brass by weight (or volume)

I also record primer lot number, didn't use to, found a need to.

 

[Regnar]

I dont uniform the ptimer pocket, i only clean it. i never did flash holes but after readung a few post I decided to do so on this set of brass.

Sorting by volume. i tried that. i jad a gem pro when i did. i could not get consistent and tepeatable results. i figure Ill try it again with the fx. but supposedly someone os comming up with another way.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I think if i was to change one thing in your process id clean THEN size. Wouldnt want my sized brass getting beat up and dont want dirty f class brass in my dies

 

[Bart B.]

I spin a bore brush in fired case necks, deprime then tumble/vibrate cases to clean them before lube and size operations. Keeps the crud out of dies and press.

 

[Bart B.]

This will seem excessive now that you're just starting, but keep the list and after a while you will see that they are all necessary to help you get to High Master.

Why do anything to decent virgin brass?

Some folks made high master shooting commercial match ammo or handloads using new unprepped cases. Won at the Nationals with them sometimes setting records. They didn't have such a list nor did all that stuff on their own.

Others made high master shooting arsenal 7.62 M118 match ammo rebulleted with a Sierra 168 or 180 HPMK. Those cases' quality were far from what your list covers and their powder charges had a 3/10ths grain spread. They used M14NM semiauto's. 7.62 Garands did as well with the same ammo or M118 unprepped primed cases with a 190 HPMK over a different powder. Such ammo tested about 2/3rds MOA at 600 yards, almost 1 MOA at 1000.

If you cannot get these results testing new unprepped cases in your rifle, fix your loading tools and/or techniques, and/or the rifle and/or what holds it.

 

[foxguy]

Let me start by saying I hate reloading and brass prep. I only do it because it is necessary to get good ammo that will do justice to a good F-Class rifle.

Why clean virgin brass?

1. As it has already been stated skip the primer pocket uniform.
2. Uniform the flash hole.
3. Debur the flash hole.
4. Anneal (after first firing).
   
5. Lube (ISW) inside the neck with Q tip.
6. Lube outside of cases.
7. Resize brass (really the neck).
   
8. Expand the neck with a mandrel that is .001 larger then the cutter mandrel.
9. Turn necks.
10. Wipe off lube outside the case.
11. Wipe off lube inside the neck.
12. Chamfer and deburr necks.
13. Because the necks have been manipulated so much now you need to lube the inside of the necks and outside of the case.
14. Resize cases (necks really).
15. Expand neck with mandrel that will give your desired neck tension.
16. Clean lube outside and inside again.
17. Prime.
18. Powder.
19. Bullet.
20. Spot check and labeling.

Obviously none of the steps relating to neck turning would have to be repeated after the first firing.

This will seem excessive now that you're just starting, but keep the list and after a while you will see that they are all necessary to help you get to High Master.

Good luck,

Joe

What Lube do you like to use for turning Case Necks and while sizing the Necks?

Thanks

 

[Liven The Dream]

Regnar
Sounds to me your off and running.
Follow the advice of the posted ideas.
Remember those fancy scale are like people , some days they get out of the wrong side of Bed .

Old saying “ It’s not the Arrow it’s the Indian “
Best of Luck

 

[Bart B.]

Old saying “ It’s not the Arrow it’s the Indian

Things have changed. It's now:

It's not the Arrow, it's the Indian and his Bow.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Things have changed. It's now:

It's not the Arrow, it's the Indian and his Bow.

The Person behind the equipment 2018 version

 

[dmoran]

Why do anything to decent virgin brass?

Some folks made high master shooting commercial match ammo or handloads using new unprepped cases. Won at the Nationals with them sometimes setting records. They didn't have such a list nor did all that stuff on their own.

Others made high master shooting arsenal 7.62 M118 match ammo rebulleted with a Sierra 168 or 180 HPMK. Those cases' quality were far from what your list covers and their powder charges had a 3/10ths grain spread. They used M14NM semiauto's. 7.62 Garands did as well with the same ammo or M118 unprepped primed cases with a 190 HPMK over a different powder. Such ammo tested about 2/3rds MOA at 600 yards, almost 1 MOA at 1000.

If you cannot get these results testing new unprepped cases in your rifle, fix your loading tools and/or techniques, and/or the rifle and/or what holds it.

History sure evolves doesn't it. Time and accuracy advancements have made it competitively harder to win, no matter what classification one holds. Winning ammo of years past, has little chance of such success today.
Except for story telling and/or for historical aspect, much of what was used in years past is grossly out dated competitively.

The Indian is using more accurate bow & arrows, and so are the other Indians.
Donovan

 

[JRS]

Things have changed. It's now:

It's not the Arrow, it's the Indian and his Bow.

It's the Indian knowing how to use the arrow and bow. The arrow plays a major part.

 

[Bart B.]

History sure evolves doesn't it. Time and accuracy advancements have made it competitively harder to win, no matter what classification one holds. Winning ammo of years past, has little chance of such success today.

Not for bullseye matches. Last time target rings for prone shouldered rifles had to be made smaller was in the late 60's to early 70's; had been the same size since the early 1900's. They were halved some years later for F class events because ones aiming area on target was reduced 90%.

I understand the point you're making. But I've not seen anything showing group size for all bullets fired for the barrels accurate life at long range has changed much over the years. Smaller groups happen these days mostly due to better bullets. Stool shooters seldom, if ever, make public the biggest groups sizes their precision and exact stuff does often winning and setting records.

Now readers can burn, and stick pins in, effigies of me on little stakes with all their like believers watching and cheering.

 

[dmoran]

But I've not seen anything showing group size for all bullets fired for the barrels accurate life at long range has changed much over the years. Stool shooters seldom, if ever, make public the biggest groups sizes their precision and exact stuff does often winning and setting records.

I'll stick in two pins.....lol

In "stool shooting" as you like to call it, ALL the targets are measured/scored, and is how the formats work. The targets are not picked or chosen, all the targets shot at a match make up the final scores.
The best, the worse, and all in between.

The LR-BR aggregate group sizes have decreased around an average of 20% per decade, a significant amount. Which is obvious more then you want to imply or except. And its obvious you base your LR-BR inputs on "stool shooting" results from decades in the past. You know... like back when 6X group spreads actually did occur, unlike current times (nor for many years).

Do believe much of what you state, to be relatively true of: "back in the day" scenario's.
Donovan

 

[Bart B.]

You know... like back when 6X group size actually was a common occurrence....

..... across some competitors' groups. That is what I referred to.

So does those frequent winners' groups when they all ain't agg-ing small enough to win.

 

[Bart B.]

The LR-BR aggregate group sizes have decreased around an average of 20% per decade, a significant amount.

Agg's now about 40% to 50% now compared to 4 or 3 decades ago?

How much has their biggest groups shrunk over 4 decades? 3 decades? NBRSA web site's records for 1K aggs of 6 groups are about 4 to about 6 inches. Betcha the biggest single group in each is probably 30% to 40% larger.

Any other 1K yard BR discipline got smaller equivalent six 5- and 10-shot group agg's?

 

[dmoran]

@Bart B.

With "around 20% decrease per decade in average aggregates" I am referring to ALL the shooters yearly/season long 6 & 10 Match aggregates and National event aggregates.
Not sure how one would average the Records your referring to?

Couple notes: (and Links)
- for 1000-BR there are 3 sanctioning bodies in the USA (NBRSA, IBS, Penn1000).
- of the 1000-BR, both the IBS-1000 and Penn-1000 have far more participation then does NBRSA-1000.
- for 600-BR there is 2 sanctioning bodies in the USA (NBRSA & IBS)
- of the 600-BR, the IBS-600 has far more participation then does NBRSA-600

Click Here - Yearly aggregates dating back to 1968 from Williamsport/Penn-1000

(and Click Here - for results post 2011)​

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As to your 6X philosophy's, will link you to the other thread, where several produced stats for you.
Click here (page 2) and read down through the individual posts and stats replied to you.

Donovan

 

[Richard Coody]

Since Ive recently acquired a top of the line midrange f class rifle, I figured I would try and fine tune my reloading process. i knew my weak link was my scale. I just set up the new FX120I with Trickler.

Ao here is my process. any critique or reccomendations welcome.

New Brass.

Size brass
Trim to length
Turn shoulders
Tumble
Dry
Chamfur and deburr
Prime
Powder
Seat bullet.

I measure after every step where apropiate. i use mitutoyo dial caliper with rtz and a datum dial to measure shoulder, case length and cbto. i use ball calipers to measure necks. National match sizer and a WTC, Wilson seater. i use a 21st century lathe, a wilson trimmer, an arbor press, a t-7 and a rock chucker 2 for the wtc die, an Annealeze, fx120i and chargemaster.

On fired cases

Deprime on a decapper,
Anneal
Size
Tumble
Dry
Light chamfur
Prime
Powder
bullet

I measure or at least try to measure everything to .001. i weigh to the kernel. i use one led light while weighing charges.

Record everything. all brass is assigned batch numbers and kept together. all measuremnts and lot numbers are recorded.

So what am I doing wrong or what can I do better? Am I missing anything?

Thanks

do you feel you need to improve the groups you are shooting now? If you are looking for another .10 reduction in group size and better consistency i can make some sugestions.

first what rest are you using and what are the top competitors using.

as for your brass. buy lapua and leave the primer pockets and flash holes alone.
weigh sort or volume sort your brass. you really are only looking for the oddballs.
neck turn to a consistent neck thickness
quit wet tumbling. that carbon in the neck is precious.
anneal every firing. consistency is most important. the AMP is the ticket
sizing send 3 pieces of 3 times fired and not resized brass to John Whidden and have him make you a custom full length sizing die.


bullets do weigh sort and sort by bearing length. again it can be done.quickly. you are only looking for the true oddballs. buy berger and it is much easier.
can't beat bullet seating with an arbor press and wilson dies

you bought the best powder measuring system made. try some lee scoops to dump the first powder in the pan for the trickler. much faster than the chargemaster.

i could probably think of more but that is enough for now

 

[Regnar]

@Richard Coody

Thank you. that is what I am looking for.

Rest I am using a Farley rest setup for fclass

I do use lapua.

Necks are turned and very concistant.

I am using a Warner Tool Company die for my 6br.

I anneal every firing. i use an anneaze but am getting an annie soon.

I was thinking about trying the scoops. i will look into geeting some this week.

So that leaves tumbling, brass sorting and bullet sorting.

I have not sorted by weight or length before. you say odd balls. how much away from the mean do you consider an odd ball?

I did try to weigh cases by volume before but could not repeat my weights so I stoped. i am going to try it again with the new scale unless the person coming up with a new method comes up with something soon.

Is it worth weighing cases by weight? if so, does it have to be virgin brass or can you sort by prepped brass?.

As for wet tumbling, the guy who I bought the rifle from wet tumbles his brass. he has shot some 1's with the rifle and 2's are the norm. I am trying to get me reloading to the level that the gun is capable of. So I am going tonstick with tumbling for a while anyways

Although I have only shoot fclass, a do plan to try a benchrest shoot or two this year.

Thanks for the advise. much appreciated.

 

[Regnar]

@Bart B.

Im sure you have good intentions, but watching you hijack post and make them about you is getting old.