It may be low tech but I can certainly get single kernel accuracy even from a lightly tuned RCBS 502. As long as you don't move it around your bench while loading, it stays repeatable and accurate through the whole loading session. I'm sure the FX-120i would be a faster solution but I usually only load 25-50 rounds in an evening so it works for me. If I were needing to load 100's of cases at a time, it might start to be a more appealing alternative.
Reloading scale.
- Thread starter Regnar
- Start date
Chargemaster is accurate to within +/- 0.1grains maybe better.
A&DFX120i is +/- 0.02grains (a kernel of most rifle powders)
That equals roughly +/- 5fps (10FPS) based on QL calculation for a .284 Win H4831
Is that worth $500? Economically it's not the cheapest improvement, but it is an easy gain...the hardest part is writing the check.
A&DFX120i is +/- 0.02grains (a kernel of most rifle powders)
That equals roughly +/- 5fps (10FPS) based on QL calculation for a .284 Win H4831
Is that worth $500? Economically it's not the cheapest improvement, but it is an easy gain...the hardest part is writing the check.
What's the warranty on these expensive scales? I know FX120i has 5 years and Gempro comes with 30 years.
With budget and warranty in mind I went with Gempro. After a learning curve of how to use it I can say with confidence that scale is not what's causing dropped points OR slowing me down in reloading process, unless we are arguing over 2-4 mins of time saving per 100 rounds loading session with a scale that costs 3 to 6 times more than Gempro
With budget and warranty in mind I went with Gempro. After a learning curve of how to use it I can say with confidence that scale is not what's causing dropped points OR slowing me down in reloading process, unless we are arguing over 2-4 mins of time saving per 100 rounds loading session with a scale that costs 3 to 6 times more than Gempro
I've also used my Chargemaster in conjunction with a digital scale. I found an inexpensive ($60) scale online, accurate to .001g, and it works pretty good. However, I found it was losing it's zero often so I stopped using it and went back to using my RCBS M500 Mechanical scale. I've actually gotten used to using the mechanical scale in conjunction with the Chargemaster, and I feel I can control the accuracy pretty well, while powdering quickly.
My plan is to buy one of the scales being discussed within this thread to compliment my Chargemaster, but after getting used to using the RCBS M500 balance scale with my Chargemaster, I'm having second thoughts about dishing out the $500-$600 for a new scale.
I actually just ordered a labradar chronograph, so depending on the velocity results I get from my current powdering appraoch, I suspect that will help me make my decision.
Adrian
My plan is to buy one of the scales being discussed within this thread to compliment my Chargemaster, but after getting used to using the RCBS M500 balance scale with my Chargemaster, I'm having second thoughts about dishing out the $500-$600 for a new scale.
I actually just ordered a labradar chronograph, so depending on the velocity results I get from my current powdering appraoch, I suspect that will help me make my decision.
Adrian
sparker
Silver $$ Contributor
The tuned beam scales that I furnish are warranted for my lifetime.
Scott Parker
Single Kernel Scales
661 364 1199
VLD223@yahoo.com
sparker
Silver $$ Contributor
I recently bought a Tree HRB103 scale. I picked up a used one cheap on ebay so thought it was worth trying. While it isn't an A&D or Satorius it seems to work well. It reads to 0.001 grams or 0.02 grains. The stated repeatability is +/- 0.005 grams (0.08 grains). However my experience is it repeats < 0.02 grains. I have loaded about 150 rounds in two sessions. The scale easily picks up the change of 1 grain of Varget or 0.02 grains. I checked it with a test weight a couple of times during each session. I also check each charge twice buy slightly lifting the pan. I have not seen any sign of drift and it has repeated the reading for each charge weighed. I'm convinced it is weighing within 1 grain of Varget. I weighed some bullets and did notice it will vary by 0.02 grains depending on where the bullet is in the pan. It is made in China and the quality of the case is not of the same quality as the better balances. The doors do not move very smoothly but everything except the buble level does function.
For $250 new this seems like a decent scale for those on a budget.
For $250 new this seems like a decent scale for those on a budget.
I have weighed a lot of Varget charges on a Sartorius Entris and my experience is that it takes 4-5 kernels of Varget to comprise .1 grain. If your Chargemaster's readout doesn't change until you've added 8 kernels, that tells you it's not detecting the additional weight until you've added almost .2 gr. Just something to think about.
I am not knocking CMs. I have one and think it's a great machine for what it costs, but we have to be realistic about its capabilities.
Dave Rabin
What scale shows in terms of digits and to which digit its actually accurate are two completely different things, chargemaster uses at best 50$ scale attached to the churning trickler and is not 0.1gn accurate (readout might show as many digits as you want but those are just fortune telling) ,if you look at the market for non reloading digital scales that are 0.1gn acurrate you are out of the charge master price range. Analog beam scales can be infinitely more accurate but are not everyones cup of tea
sparker
Silver $$ Contributor
Probably a month currently. It is $85 to do the work and ship it back. I can also supply tuned scales.
Scott Parker
Single Kernel Scales
661 364 1199
VLD223@yahoo.com
Just an update, Scott contacted me about my scale and apologized for my falling thru a crack. With new baby & all of the family stress that can cause - this is fully understandable by me and I appreciate his honesty & prompt response (this was my first attempt to contact him about delivery so my fault for some of the delay!). My scale is in the mail. Thanks Scott!!
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Joe,
I have a similar setup. I have two CM's and a Sartorious 503 I think and the Omega and this works great for me. I have a Gempro 250 that I am saving to smash with a hammer someday at a moment of weakness "Hahaha" I shoot 1000 yard benchrest and this setup works great but I have been caught in a motel before or during a two day event short on ammo and I have used my omega with a Parker tuned 1010 and shot really well. Boyd Allen also talked me through tuning a few older beam scales and they also work great. I think out to 600 yards the cm works fine, I know quite a few top shorter range shooters using them with good results I believe once you go past 600yds things become very difficult and every little thing matters including to the kernal........sometimes peace of mind knowing your loads are near perfect is all the edge you need.
Now go practice mirage and wind reading skills and the speed at which you can shoot.Wayne.
I posted earlier on this thread regarding the Tree HRB 103 scale. I just bought a second used scale. It is a Mettler AM50. It has a capacity of 50 grams 0.1mg readability and repeatability and is made in Switzerland. It is an older scale but works good, calibrated fine and does not drift. When switching to the grain units the scale only reads to two digits vs 4 digits for grams thus if you want the grains out to tree digits you have to measure in grams and convert. Since it will weighs to within 0.01 gn I figure that is good enough as that is ~1/2 kernel of Varget. I just ran 40 loads of 29.9 gns of Varget on my CM and weighed them on the Tree HRB103 and Mettler AM50. As expected, the CM ES was +/- 0.1 gnbut most were within 0.05 gn. The HRB103 & AM50 were very consistent with each other. Of the 40 charges 37 were within 0.01 gn. The other 3 were within 0.02 gn. That is much better than expected since the HRB103 only has a readability of 0.02 gn and stated repeatability is 0.005 g. Neither scale had much drift during the measurements. I did re-Tar the AM50 twice but drift was not over 0.01 gn. I checked both with a 50 g cal weight before starting and after 20 charges. Both were spot on. I am not an expert on scales but my conclusion is you can get a decent scale on a budget. I talked to a couple chemist friends that use analytical balances frequently. They recommended the following scale manufactures as quality analytical balances - Sartorius, Denver, A&D and Mettler. I have <$150 with shipping invedsted in either scale tested. I am convinced the HRB will be withing +/-1 Kernel of Varget and the AM50 measures <1 kernel of Varget. I have seen post that state a strain gauge type balance is not accurate enough. The HRB uses this technology and appears accurate, responds quick, will detect adding or removing 1 kernal of powder and doesn't drift after its warmed up. My recommendation for those looking a for a digital scale/balance on a budget is:
1. Buy one with a lower weighing range such as 50 or 100 g. One that measures 50 g (771.62 gn) is adequate for measuring powder, bullets, cases, ect.. My powder pan wieghs 133 gn. That still give adequate margin for any powder charges or components I'm likely to weigh. I am not sure about all scales but know most instrumentation is accurate to within a % of full scale. Although most devices have a wide operating range, I prefer to keep most measurements between 10 & 80% of the full scale of the instrument. By keeping the ranger lower I suspect the accuracy will be better. Probably not as important on a high end balance.
2 If buying new scale/balance consider the Tree HRB 103 or equivalent. New they are ~$250.
3 Shop for a used analytical balance. There are a number of liquidators selling analytical balances on ebay and other sites. These typically come for labs or businesses that are closing. For <$200 a decent high quality used analytical balance can be purchased. It wont be certified and may have some wear & tear but if it calibrates with a test weight and weighs consistent it should work fine for reloading.
4 After you purchase a good analytical balance recognize the need for a good flat sturdy surface in an area away from drafts and temperature changes. Many labs place analytical balances on a 3" thick slab of granite or other substantial surface. I don't think this is necessary for the accuracy required for reloading. I have mine on a 1 1/2" thick butcher block maple work bench. It seems study but even at that pushing down on the work bench with modest pressure will affect the scale readings.
5 Read the instruction manual. Most analytical balances have settings that will affect your readings. For example on the AM50 referenced above you can set it to a mode that keeps responding to changes for adding removing material or one that locks in after the weight is placed on the pan and it stabilizes. There are also settings for how quick it settles in. A slower setting will be less affected by external conditions such as vibrations.
Again I'm in no way a expert with scales/balances but these are my observations.
1. Buy one with a lower weighing range such as 50 or 100 g. One that measures 50 g (771.62 gn) is adequate for measuring powder, bullets, cases, ect.. My powder pan wieghs 133 gn. That still give adequate margin for any powder charges or components I'm likely to weigh. I am not sure about all scales but know most instrumentation is accurate to within a % of full scale. Although most devices have a wide operating range, I prefer to keep most measurements between 10 & 80% of the full scale of the instrument. By keeping the ranger lower I suspect the accuracy will be better. Probably not as important on a high end balance.
2 If buying new scale/balance consider the Tree HRB 103 or equivalent. New they are ~$250.
3 Shop for a used analytical balance. There are a number of liquidators selling analytical balances on ebay and other sites. These typically come for labs or businesses that are closing. For <$200 a decent high quality used analytical balance can be purchased. It wont be certified and may have some wear & tear but if it calibrates with a test weight and weighs consistent it should work fine for reloading.
4 After you purchase a good analytical balance recognize the need for a good flat sturdy surface in an area away from drafts and temperature changes. Many labs place analytical balances on a 3" thick slab of granite or other substantial surface. I don't think this is necessary for the accuracy required for reloading. I have mine on a 1 1/2" thick butcher block maple work bench. It seems study but even at that pushing down on the work bench with modest pressure will affect the scale readings.
5 Read the instruction manual. Most analytical balances have settings that will affect your readings. For example on the AM50 referenced above you can set it to a mode that keeps responding to changes for adding removing material or one that locks in after the weight is placed on the pan and it stabilizes. There are also settings for how quick it settles in. A slower setting will be less affected by external conditions such as vibrations.
Again I'm in no way a expert with scales/balances but these are my observations.
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