Reloading scale.

[Regnar]

Ive been working hard perfecting my reloading process and feel good about my tecqunique and my equipment and my results are showing that. The one thing that I still quetion a bit is my scale. I have a chargemaster that I have reprogramed and done the straw mod. What else is available to me to get mote accuracy than what the charge master offers?

Thanks

 

[ShootDots]

This is a simple answer. There are many excellent scales out there. However, if you want the most "bang for the buck", get an A&D FX-120I scale from Cambridge Environmental in Canada. It measures down to the 0.02grs of powder. And it DOES measure MOST powders down to the kernel! Ball powders or very fine grained powders, such as VV N140 it won't, but almost all the powders we use in a competitive manner, it will! A single kernel is about as accurate as you can get. It is fast and does not "waver" on it's measurements. There are other scales that are at least as good, like the Sartorius but they cost literally twice as much with no significant increase in speed or accuracy. So, for me, the FX-120I has the most bang for the buck!

 

[Twoboxer]

A digital scale you can rely on must not be based on a "strain gauge" like your (and my) Chragemaster is. Unfortunately, the least expensive scale that qualifies is an A&D FX120i.

An automated trickler has recently been developed that converts the scale into an accurate (+/-0.02gr, slightly larger with heavy weight powder kernels) "Chargemaster". Check the thread http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...to-a-prometheus.3897203/page-18#post-36798234

 

[Dave Berg]

I agree with the choice of scale but don't know for certain if Cambridge has the lowest price. My FX-120I is over three years old and has performed admirably. To the kernel with most powders and +/- 1 kernel with H4198.

I did buy mine through Cambridge Environmental although it ever got any where near Canada. There are some US dealers that are pretty close price wise. Your tab from Cambridge will be $710CD +$25CD for shipping. That's about $566 USD. PayPal will add to that for converting from USD to CD and I believe it was around 2% which would make the total around $570. There is at least one US dealer advertising $603 with free shipping so you might want to shop around.

Dealing with Cambridge was great in my experience and the fact that it's a Canadian company was transparent. They did accept only PayPal for payment when I bought mine but I was good with that. They may still be the best deal around but not by as much as when I paid them $400 delivered and others wanted $650 or more.

I don't think you can beat the combination of the FX-120I and the Omega trickler. JMHO.

 

[savagedasher]

I agree with the choice of scale but don't know for certain if Cambridge has the lowest price. My FX-120I is over three years old and has performed admirably. To the kernel with most powders and +/- 1 kernel with H4198.

I did buy mine through Cambridge Environmental although it ever got any where near Canada. There are some US dealers that are pretty close price wise. Your tab from Cambridge will be $710CD +$25CD for shipping. That's about $566 USD. PayPal will add to that for converting from USD to CD and I believe it was around 2% which would make the total around $570. There is at least one US dealer advertising $603 with free shipping so you might want to shop around.

Dealing with Cambridge was great in my experience and the fact that it's a Canadian company was transparent. They did accept only PayPal for payment when I bought mine but I was good with that. They may still be the best deal around but not by as much as when I paid them $400 delivered and others wanted $650 or more.

I don't think you can beat the combination of the FX-120I and the Omega trickler. JMHO.

Chargemaster is fine. I feel one kernel is not nessary Till you know know the cases don't very 20 kernel difference or more. Larry

 

[Regnar]

Well wether it mattes or not that is what I am looking for.

 

[zipollini]

 

[Mozella]

....... snip.......... So, for me, the FX-120I has the most bang for the buck!

I don't disagree with anything you posted; however, not all of us can justify the cost of such a nice scale even though we want .02gr precision.

I try to weigh my competition ammo to the nearest kernel and that is something my Chargemaster simply won't do. However, I can come pretty close with my Gem Pro 250 which claims a .02gr precision. I can definitely see a change with one kernel of my normal powders but it must be said that it requires a lot of fiddling and some acquired technique to do so. It's not nearly as simple as adding or subtracting one piece with a pair of tweezers . And if you try to trickle with the Gem Pro, you will soon be frustrated.

But precision loading can be done at an affordable price. I start with the best effort of my optimized Chargemaster, dump the result in my Gem Pro pan, and correct the charge kernel-by-kernel from there.

I'd like a better scale and perhaps someday I'll get one, but for now the less expensive option works for me even though it requires a certain technique with is frankly a PITA.

 

[Comrade Terry]

Ball powders or very fine grained powders, such as VV N140 it won't,

I must be lucky, Benjamin. I measure N140 on my FX-120I to the kernel. Either lucky, or I'm holding my head just right.

 

[Dave Berg]

Well wether it mattes or not that is what I am looking for.

I believe it does when it comes to quality of my handloads. When I was using the Chargemaster alone I was satisfied with ES around 10 fps and thought that was as good as it gets. The FX-120I added to my loading process made a big difference. Whether the difference shows up on paper is still debatable but I'm confident that when one shot doesn't go where the others did, powder charge wasn't the reason.

My highest extreme spread for ten five shot groups shot the same day was 7 fps. This was the lowest:

 

[rardoin]

This is what I use also. It will measure a quarter kernel if that is your game. Definitely more scale than is necessary but I can put a kernel in the pan, get a weight, pull it off, then put it back on and I get the exact original weight...every time. That is worth the cost to me. If my budget was a bit less, I could have fiddled with my Gempro 250 (external shroud/power conditioning and such) and probably not have shown up on target at 600yd at my current skill level.

 

[Matt in Virginia]

There are other scales that are at least as good, like the Sartorius but they cost literally twice as much with no significant increase in speed or accuracy.

Hmmm...

 

[Joe R]

Chargemaster is fine. I feel one kernel is not nessary Till you know know the cases don't very 20 kernel difference or more. Larry

Larry,
If you think the ChargeMaster is fine it is only because you don't use a better scale. If you did you would change your tune very quickly.

Regnar,
The CM is an excellent scale for the money and I highly recommend it to anyone that asks. But when you're ready to move your precision to a higher level an additional scale is the first thing I would recommend. I have a Sartorious Entris 64S because a couple of guys I know recommend it to me. At the time I had heard of the A&D FX-120I but didn't bother to investigate it.

About six months after I bought the Sartorious its power supply went dead on me just before a match. A friend loaned me his FX-120i and much to my suprise I found it to be an excellent scale. When I received the new power supply I decided to compare the two and found that both scales ended up with the same exact charge down to the last kernel. The only difference is that the Sartorious shows to .001 and the FX-120I shows to .01. But that doesn't matter because the kernels of Varget are .020-.025 in size, so the end result is the same.

My advice is: If you have money in the bank earning 0% and want bragging rights then buy the Sartorious. But if money is relevant then the FX-120I, at half the price of the Sartorious, is the obvious choice.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Matt in Virginia]

Imho & fwiw,
Firstly the Sartorius Entris is an Analytical Balance whereas the AND FX-120I is a precision balance by definition. Simply the Sartorius(Made in Germany) measures to .0001 grams and to .002 grains whereas the AND FX-120I(Made in South Korea) is a Precision Balance and is designed to weight to .001 grams and .01 grains. A difference in RESOLUTION. The Sartorius, to my mind, has a better draft shield which is has three sliding glass doors while the AND has a plastic enclosure. Personal preference. Further to remove the silliness out of this discussion please realize that AND makes an Analytical Balance that duplicates EVERYTHING that the Sartorius does with .0001 grams resolution, as well as the EXACT breakdown of .002 grains resolution. The bad part is the AND HR120 runs a little over $1860... It ALSO has a very similar looking draft shield arrangement to the Sartorius EntrisIS 64. Nice scale but almost twice as much as the Sartorius for the EXACT level of performance.

AND HR120 Analytical Laboratory Balance http://scaleman.com/analytical-lab-balance-hr120.html

The beginning and ending of this discussion is how much information do you want before you round off the previous number. I may not need it, however, like many other things once you get used to the increased resolution it would be difficult to go backwards and loose the third digit. It MAY very well be information than I cannot use, however, when you have enough tolerance in any set of measurements that you cut off prematurely it can affect the long term total. It does change the final number. Just a little but it is cumulative. If you don't want it get the FX-120I... Truthfully you can spend FAR MORE MONEY on either an AND or Sartorius scale that will only read to .1 grams. That said it dead accurate to that weight. Moral of the story is choose your desired level of resolution and move on... Fwiw, David Tubb runs the Sartorius Entris 64.

I could personally be happy with either. I started with a friend's AND FX-120 and frankly it was so far ahead of ANYTHING I had ever used before it I was amazed. It was one of those situations where you knew you just cost yourself a bit of coin. I had also run the Sartorius GD-503, however, it only had resolution of .005 grains, which in my mind, was of most modest help. It WAS more information, however, it was not THAT MUCH more information. Had it not been for the over bearing scale salesman(who is not really a bad guy) I would have gone on thinking the Sartorius was .005 grains resolution. The Entris is a relatively new unit, with well tested electronics, keyboard, and force restoration balance. The AND is a hybrid Force Restoration System.

As a side note the RCBS Chargemaster Digital Scale has been discontinued as a separate product. I was talking with RCBS yesterday. It will still be available as part of the CM 1500 combo unit. Why anyone would buy the scale but itself is beyond me. There are FAR better scales on the market at similar pricing.

Just a fwiw, imho, and afaik.

Regards, Matt.

 

[Twoboxer]

I must be lucky, Benjamin. I measure N140 on my FX-120I to the kernel. Either lucky, or I'm holding my head just right.

Agree. With N140 it's actually quite easy to bring the pan exactly to the target charge weight because of the distribution of individual kernel weights.

Just don't try to do that with N570 lol.

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

great news. That said, does anybody have a website that sells them?

 

[sparker]

Ive been working hard perfecting my reloading process and feel good about my tecqunique and my equipment and my results are showing that. The one thing that I still quetion a bit is my scale. I have a chargemaster that I have reprogramed and done the straw mod. What else is available to me to get mote accuracy than what the charge master offers?

Thanks

Tuned beam scales get you to single kernel sensitivity at a much lower price point with fantastic long term reliability.
Scott Parker
Single Kernel Scales
661 364 1199
VLD223@yahoo.com

 

[rardoin]

Tuned beam scales get you to single kernel sensitivity at a much lower price point with fantastic long term reliability.
Scott Parker
Single Kernel Scales
661 364 1199
VLD223@yahoo.com

Although I prefer my Sartorious, Scott is certainly correct as a properly set-up beam balance will be more than precise enough for reloading. Other drawbacks led me to purchase a Sartorious but If I my budget was a bit less i would be calling Scott as I hear he can make a beam balance hum.

 

[Dave Berg]

great news. That said, does anybody have a website that sells them?

http://cambridgeenviro.com/productD...andD-5-Year-Warranty-Top-Loading-Balance-5780

I believe shipping is another $25 C so total would be $735 Canadian or around $566 US plus whatever PayPal charges for conversion. PayPal is less expensive than the credit card companies and WAY cheaper than your local bank.

 

[Fotheringill]

All I am going to add is as follows (and I have and use a RCBS Chargemaster Combo) and is based upon my meager experience only;

Varget- I believe there are eight or so kernels to .1 grain.

Chargemaster is supposed to be accurate to .1 grain +/-

In my mind, and assuming accuracy claim of RCBS, any given drop of powder can be up to 23 kernels more or less than the previous drop or the next drop.

Right now, I am ok with that variation. I may change in the future. If you ain't, spend the extra money and step in scale accuracy.