Reloading pistol for self-defense

[Aaron23]

better to be tried by 12
than carried by 6
---
when it comes to self-defense, be able to use anything available to you as a weapon
A sword
a Knife
a Rock
Reloads

Make sure if you use a knife not to stab too deep.

A lawyer might say you were trying to kill the guy...

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I don't know of any factory defensive rounds that the bullets used aren't available to reloaders, something to consider. It's why I load what I do carry.

 

[Steve Donlon]

I load a 185gr. Gold Dots around 900 fps in the summer and in the winter a 230gr. Gold Dots around 800 fps. They are very accurate in my 45 acp. If they are not dead and get a lawyer, I can argue they have less velocity than a factory round. If it ever comes up.

 

[GetReal]

I load a 185gr. Gold Dots around 900 fps in the summer and in the winter a 230gr. Gold Dots around 800 fps. They are very accurate in my 45 acp. If they are not dead and get a lawyer, I can argue they have less velocity than a factory round. If it ever comes up.

Exactly my point. I know more about reloading than any lawyer I will face.

And I can argue I loaded for maximum safety for innocents, and not to be abusive in my self defense efforts.

I'll destroy any lawyer who thinks he can demonize my reloading.

 

[GetReal]

So lemme AGAIN ask what Im wanting to know :

So..... questions : . Does this affect your choice and quantity of powder in the powder charge? What velocity for what grain weight projectile do you try to reload for ? Or do you just want a bullet going as fast as possible? Is 22 inches of ballistic gelatin a reasonable facsimile of the circumstance of a self-defense shooting? What if anything else do you do to be as safe and responsible as possible in loading yourself defense rounds?

 

[358WCF]

@358WCF ... thanks for actually answering some of the questions I asked and not giving your opinion on something I said I have already come to a conclusion on.

Factory self defense ammo typically is too hot, and risks going through the target and endangering innocent bystanders so I would like to minimize that danger and avoid that accusation in court. I'd like to avoid having to explain in court why I chose a factory round te
widely known to over penetrate that endangers innocent bystanders

GetReal,

That "hot loaded" factory stuff isn't necessarily true. The 9mm I've been carrying for decades is Federal 115 Hydra Shocks. They're rated at 1060fps but are a bit less in my pistol. In gallon water jugs they open wide & get into the 3rd jug. Also in 9mm, I got a pile of Norma108 MHP @ 1312fps on close -out last year. They open up like a propeller & also stop in the 2nd or 3rd jug sometimes partially entering the 4th without exit. Unsure how they would act on ribs. In 45ACP it's just RP 230JHPs. They were on sale a few years back & shoot well enough from both pistols. No velocity on the box & am too lazy to dig thru my records. Not real concerned about over-penetration with the boxcars @ around 800-850fps. If I carry the 44 Spl. it's Winchester 200gr Silvertips @ 772fps from the snubby, again bought a pile of them years ago. They usually do about 3 or 4 water jugs with a nice mushroom, but also seem to knock the jugs off the bench as they penetrate.

I'm rethinking HPs as well. It seems in testing that some types get clogged with clothing material & fail to mushroom. Elmer may have been onto something with a wide flat nose SWC at moderate speed. They may be a better idea, at least in 44 & 45... or not. Not sure if it's worth testing much or changing anything at this point other than curiosity.

Back in the day, Glaser Safety slugs were the Schidt. Expensive, but by all reports just flat out deadly in most uses. Thinking Cor-Bon made them & still may but haven't seen any in stores or online stores for years.

Here are the 9mms. Not sure if I still have the 44 & 45 pics somewhere but they're hiding tonight, maybe with the 25ACP penetration test pics.

 

[GetReal]

@358WCF ... thats one of the things Im getting at. 115gr going 1060 fps are pretty clearly downloaded to avoid over penetration.

Comparatively, I see alot af factory 124gr HPs loaded to near and over over 1200 fps

 

[ELR LVR]

Exactly my point. I know more about reloading than any lawyer I will face.

And I can argue I loaded for maximum safety for innocents, and not to be abusive in my self defense efforts.

I'll destroy any lawyer who thinks he can demonize my reloading.

^^^This
some of us can intelligently "object" to any statement a Lawyer has to say
it is the Lawyers who are uneducated in our realm
---
I would not hesitate ONE BIT to use a reload for home self defense
one of which statements I would make is
I do not own any factory ammunition and only use reloads
so is the only form of defense I had available in the moment
---
Regardless, When I took my CCW course, our instructor was an ex cop
and current Bail Bondsmen for the County
I asked if I could use my personal reloads during our quals
He said "sure, why not"
When I asked him about the stupid opposition for using reloads in a defense situation
he stated "I cannot find any law that states otherwise, or what ammo must be used"

 

[GetReal]

@ELR LVR ... exactly. Enuf discussion of TV fairy tale lawyer talk.

Please... everyone... this is a reloading thread. Not a lawyer thread. Pls discuss reloading technique, not what you think some lawyer might say.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I don't think just ballistic gelatin is a great representation of the human body. That said I have shot raccoons with 9m 115 ball(fmj). Always exits no matter the angle. Sometimes very little blood, as the fat plugs the exit. 25+ years ago I "tested" factory 357mag hp rounds on fresh deer heads, wondering if they would "explode" like in movies. Most didn't exit, as in a distinguishable entrance and exit.

 

[ELR LVR]

I don't think just ballistic gelatin is a great representation of the human body. That said I have shot raccoons with 9m 115 ball(fmj). Always exits no matter the angle. Sometimes very little blood, as the fat plugs the exit. 25+ years ago I "tested" factory 357mag hp rounds on fresh deer heads, wondering if they would "explode" like in movies. Most didn't exit, as in a distinguishable entrance and exit.

I did test a Colt 45 to the head of a deer once
A fawn got hit and paralyzed its hind end and was crawling across the road with its front legs
I decided to put it out of its misery, it was actually causing a traffic hazard of people stopping in the middle of the road and pointing at it
I held it down so it wouldnt struggle flopping around and so I wouldnt miss
and put my Ruger 45 Colt to its head
---
I was not ready for what happened
it definitely exploded, pink brains got all over my face, all over the nice stainless gun, everywhere
it WAS just like the movies for me.
but thats at Pt. Blank

 

[Oso]

@ELR LVR ... exactly. Enuf discussion of TV fairy tale lawyer talk.

Please... everyone... this is a reloading thread. Not a lawyer thread. Pls discuss reloading technique, not what you think some lawyer might say.

Pistol velocity doesn’t have the hydrostatic effect that rifle’s impart. +P velocity doesn’t create devastating wound channels. Shot placement aided by bullet expansion is critical.

I use lower velocity defense ammo inside my home, and higher velocity ammo for carry outside my home. I have children so excess penetration is a concern. I don’t need maximum velocity for self defense inside my house. I need the ammo to not blind me with either a fireball or smoke screen that affects my ability to see clearly and make follow-up shots. Depending on caliber, 800fps-1000fps for home defense. I would use Titegroup or Bullseye. There are some powders with flash suppressant that are worth testing.

Determine the velocity that your specific bullet requires to reliably perform, Specifically, the minimum velocity required for the bullet to completely expand or fragment. Refer to manufacturer’s materials (reloading data center) for this minimum velocity. The amount of additional velocity will depend upon your parameters/assumptions. Are you shooting within 15 yards or 50 yards. Are you shooting soft body target, someone wearing a vest, or shooting around obstacles, such as vehicles. The more complex the more velocity I would want.

Hopefully, this answers your question.

 

[GetReal]

@Oso on point. Helpful. You've actually given me an idea that I'm thinking Ima run with, doing some specific testing with my gun and my loads.

You've obviously done some careful thought on your own approach and I appreciate you sharing it.

For me I do think over penetration is a real concern outside the house so that's what I want to test

Again... thanx.

 

[GetReal]

@ELR LVR ... and here I always figured deer had no brains given how they run right at the front end of my car all the time....