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Reloading Methods Info Sources

garandman

Bolt Gun Bodacious
Looking for "academic" sources to improve my reloading game.

Websites ok, prefer in print

I am old school. I like to highlight, underline make notes, etc. :)

Any help gratefully appreciated.
 
@garandman, I have seen you post here quite a bit and you seem to be on top of your game. What exactly are you looking to learn? I am constantly looking for good knowledge (empirical data from testing), yet don’t think a “true” manual exists. I love this forum for the sharing. Can you give details for how you are looking to improve your game?
 
@David Christian ... For instance right now I am trying to figure out which comes 1st... seating depth or powder charge.

I've had success settling on a Powder charge then dialing in accuracy by adjusting seating depth but other people tell me that's not the right way to do it.

Even the folks at Berger told me to Find the right seating depth 1st.

Other things… what *all* can be learned from standard deviation of velocity?

Merits of OCW vs. Ladder tests.

I have seen scatter diagrams refered to But I don't really understand them.

So many of the discussions in this forum are of significant Importance but I really can't add anything to them.

I've come across several of Brian litz books and think that would be a great source for me.

I appreciate your kind words but there is so much I don't know.
 
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@garandman, I can only share with you what I have tested. That is truly all I know.

related to seating or powder, I don’t think the order really matters as long as you reconfirm the prior test. For example I will do a course powder test, then a seating test, then reconfirm with a fine powder test (using the seating result). Always triangulates a great result.

My testing related to SD or ES tells me how well I prep brass, especially neck tension (interference fit, neck hardness, and the surface condition of the inside case neck and bullet surface). If I can get to a 20 ES or lower over a 20 shot string, I don’t spend anymore energy on brass prep or those variables. If the number is higher, something is off and I need to examine each step to find the weak link in my brass process.

There are a ton of different ways to get to the same result. Each test will tell you when you are improving. Just take good notes and change one variable at a time.
 
Yeah, neck tension is gonna be the next step in my learning process....

Like is neck sizing enuf, or is turning the case neck better...

I've usually focused on getting a single digit SD... but ... is that good enuf... ?
 
The search function is a great resource for information, I’m always trying to learn something in short order so other shooters experience with success or failure seems to save me time and resources. speaking of neck tension I’ve kept that for more of a secondary or fine adjustment, I’ll be interested in your findings.
J
 
The search function is a great resource for information, I’m always trying to learn something in short order so other shooters experience with success or failure seems to save me time and resources. speaking of neck tension I’ve kept that for more of a secondary or fine adjustment, I’ll be interested in your findings.
J

Indeed. Well said. The challenge is separating personal experience from "universal" fact.

Every thing I "know" comes from a very limited sample size. Others have almost unlimited experience e.g. Bryan Litz.

But how to tell who is who... :) lotta ppl present themselves as experts ... me too, sometimes.... ;)
 
Yeah, neck tension is gonna be the next step in my learning process....

Like is neck sizing enuf, or is turning the case neck better...

I assume you mean unturned case neck vs fully turned case necks. Because the benefits of a well-chosen full length sizing die are clear over a neck-sizing your brass.

Anyway, the two philosophies behind turning case necks are to 1) eliminate variance in the neck wall thickness and 2) reduce the overall neck tension of the assembled cartridge.

The first one is pretty well agreed to be useful. The second one was state of the art in target reloading for many years but the advantage is less clear.

My personal approach is to neck turn my 6BR and 6PPC necks at .0123 per side, which gives at least 80% cleanup. It's much less work than taking off half of the neck wall.

If you want try out neck turning, I suggest buying prepared brass. If you like the results and want to do it yourself, you'll need a neck turning kit and a tubing micrometer. All told it's a couple hundred bucks+ to get into good neck turning gear.

I've usually focused on getting a single digit SD... but ... is that good enuf... ?

What distance are you shooting? Extremely tight velocities mean nothing until you get into medium and long range - say 600+ yards. Certainly in the point-blank events 100 to 200 yards, velocity spread just isn't a factor in developing a winning load.
 
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@dgeesaman....100 yard load testing for 600 yard shooting working out to 1000.


And thanx for the neck tension primer... really... the 80 % approach makes sense...
 
@David Christian ... For instance right now I am trying to figure out which comes 1st... seating depth or powder charge.

I've had success settling on a Powder charge then dialing in accuracy by adjusting seating depth but other people tell me that's not the right way to do it.

Even the folks at Berger told me to Find the right seating depth 1st.

Merits of OCW vs. Ladder tests.
Powder charge vs seating depth really forms a 2 dimensional grid of possibilities. In a perfect world with barrels that didn't wear, we would test every square on the grid. In practicality, we have to deal with one at a time or at least we can do very well and save consumables by testing one at a time. Given that barrels are always eroding and changing, the sooner we get to a good load the longer that load should be useful.

It would be interesting to play around with an accurate, mild cartridge like .222 and test the entire grid, just to see if a given loading philosophy produced the absolute optimum vs testing 'everything'.

Berger has studied the optimal seating depth on their long-range bullets and found they can vary quite a bit. As a result with those bullets, it seems to narrow the load development more quickly to test a wide range of seating depths first. Then work on powder charge and finer increments of seating depth later.

For short range target cartridges, the popular range of seating depth is narrower and so most philosophies run powder charge first. After going through a few barrels and finding optimal loads for a given chambering, many shooters know exactly where they are most likely to find results.

Hope this helps,

David
 
@dgeesaman....100 yard load testing for 600 yard shooting working out to 1000.


And thanx for the neck tension primer... really... the 80 % approach makes sense...
To be clear I was not discussing neck tension, only neck turning.

Neck tension is the term that describes how firmly the bullet is being squeezed after it's seated within the neck. A more precise definition probably doesn't exist.

Neck tension comes from the hardness of the neck material, thickness of neck wall, and the difference in diameter between the bullet and neck before seating. Neck turning affects the second one. Annealing and quality brass affect the first one. Neck sizing practice (bushing dies, expander balls, expander mandrels) affect the third one.

One more variable in neck tension is the length of the engagement between the bullet and neck. It's possible to set your neck bushing 'tall' in the sizing die so that less than the full length of case neck is sized down, reducing the total neck tension.

Again, many philosophies are interwoven in these elements but everyone agrees that consistency is a good thing, and to let the target tell you what's working.

Sounds like we're on a similar path for our load testing. I'd like to make the hike to the longer ranges with my 6BRA rifle but I won't waste my time / consumables until I'm satisfied to have a halfway-good load at shorter ranges with reasonable velocity spread. It won't guarantee a good long-range load, but it will be a much better starting point.

I think I have most of the Litz books - and I don't recall a ton about reloading itself. But I will flip through so that at least if you buy one, you will know if it has chapters on reloading.
 
@dgeesaman ... thanx. Helpful.

One more question.... neck turning has no effect on neck tension?? Are you turning the inside / outside of the neck?

I use a K&M Precision press with LE WIlson chamber type bullet seaters, and I can often feel significant difference in the force needed to seat the bullet. (e.g. last nite that combo got me pretty consistently inside 1/1000 th varaince in length to ogive. I was happy with that. But not real consistent on neck tension... )

As a starting point, it seems wise to get that fairly consistent, i.e. another "80% rule" application.... not necessarily perfect, but eliminating most of the variance.
 
To your original question, I have a very small collection of books and here are my reviews:
Book of Rifle Accuracy (Tony Boyer): This is generally a book about the 6PPC and short range benchrest. That said, the techniques he describes are very useful fundamentals. The illustrations though are strong in some places, weak in others.
Handloading for Competition (Glen Zediker): This book really does cover the full range of shooting environments and cartridges. That said, the broadness of the context makes everything a big wide treatment of even specific subjects. Also Mr. Zediker has a circular wandering writing style. In my opinion that makes it a difficult read if you want clear answers quickly, and more akin to waxing poetically over a beer or more.

Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting Vol 1 (Litz): This book is mostly about external ballistics. But if you want to get to know long range shooting, it's good info. Part 2 of 4 does cover equipment: rifles, bullets, barrels, etc.
Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting Vol 2 (Litz): More discussion of external ballistics but part 2 of 3 in this book (90 pages) is about handloading for long range. Specifically Bullet trimming and pointing, powder measurement, flash hole deburring, neck tension, and fill ratio.
Accuracy and Precision for Long Range Shooting (Litz): This book is about external ballistics and the basic math of shot dispersion. In other words, your shots will always spread out by the time they reach the target and he explains how to understand that dispersion and put as much of it as possible on your target zone. The background here is mostly military, with the target being a torso silhouette, but a target is a target. There is a good discussion about various cartridges and how their advantages / disadvantages play out in shot dispersion at various distances.

Hope this helps,

David
 
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@dgeesaman ... thanx. Helpful.

One more question.... neck turning has no effect on neck tension?? Are you turning the inside / outside of the neck?

I use a K&M Precision press with LE WIlson chamber type bullet seaters, and I can often feel significant difference in the force needed to seat the bullet. (e.g. last nite that combo got me pretty consistently inside 1/1000 th varaince in length to ogive. I was happy with that. But not real consistent on neck tension... )

As a starting point, it seems wise to get that fairly consistent, i.e. another "80% rule" application.... not necessarily perfect, but eliminating most of the variance.

Seating force vs. neck tension - a classic topic to get the locals excited here.

Neck tension as I detailed it, ignores the friction that is present when we press the bullet into the neck. What you're feeling in the seating press is both friction and the neck stretching to accept the bullet. Obviously consistent neck tension is essential to achieving consistent seating force, but it's not the whole story. I've made nice improvements in my seating force (and velocity spreads) by using Redding dry neck lube on my necks / bullets. But is consistent seating force the golden answer to extremely consistent velocity? The group intelligence here says no. So it's not quite as simple as loading 150 round and sorting them by their seating force.

One thing to keep in mind with seating force is that a press pushes the bullet into an unpressurized brass case, but in the chamber the bullet is released from a pressurized brass case. So the friction effect is definitely reduced in the chamber.
 
garandman, a book I find useful is: Sinclair International's Precision Reloading & Shooting Handbook, 10th edition. Printed in 1999 and may not be available new, may be used. Like you I also enjoy books for many of the same reasons. When the TV gets boring, I like to sit down and re-read my old books and my Precision Shooting magazines. Based above responses I may be way out of line. Enjoy the inter web, but back in the day, magazines and later books was how I became more sophisticated in my craft. Back in the day, I would get a hint of something from places like American Rifleman and then spend years chasing it down. For example Wilson dies and tools.
 
Looking for "academic" sources to improve my reloading game.

Websites ok, prefer in print

I am old school. I like to highlight, underline make notes, etc. :)

Any help gratefully appreciated.
These are aimed at Benchrest shooters but most of the same principals apply for those seeking other disciplines requiring advanced accuracy. Tony Boyer's "Book of Rifle Accuracy" and Mike Radigan's "Extreme Rifle Accuracy" are two of the finest reading materials out there, in my opinion. Also there are books by Brian Litz that I am told are very good, although I have no personal experience with them. You should be very thankful for the internet in this case, as in past days you had to seek out a knowledgeable mentor, which sometimes was difficult. This site and a few similar sites, contain so much information that it would have been all but impossible to get the same amount of knowledge 25+ years ago.
 
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Indeed. Well said. The challenge is separating personal experience from "universal" fact.

Every thing I "know" comes from a very limited sample size. Others have almost unlimited experience e.g. Bryan Litz.

But how to tell who is who... :) lotta ppl present themselves as experts ... me too, sometimes.... ;)
I usually listen or follow suggestions from members here. check the competition page for results of matches and perhaps when you see a unfamiliar name atop the leader board inquire towards their screen name, you may be surprised as to whom you’ve been chatting with.
J
 

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