Reloading for TC Contender - any experts here

[radford56]

I bought a TC Contender many years ago when I was a hardcore squirrel hunter. As such, I got it with 22 lr and 45/410 barrels and had a great time with it. But, of course, I never got into reloading for the Contender with those barrels. As my hunting and shooting interests evolved the Contender started spending more time in the safe.

A couple of years ago, I got a great bargain on some new in the box Contender barrels and bought them all. I pretty much just put them on the shelf at the time, but now that I've retired I'm thinking of pulling at least a couple of them, a 7-30 Waters and a .223 AI barrel, out to play with at the range.

I've been doing some preliminary reading on reloading for the Contender and I've learned that it is somewhat different than reloading for a typical bolt action. I've also learned that there is some controversy (or at least differences in opinion) regarding how to best determine proper headspace for both rimmed and rimless cartridges in the Contender. Bellm sells a headspace indicator that some swear by and that others say is completely unnecessary.

So, if there are any Contender experts here I'd really like to hear if you have any tips or tricks for getting the best out of the Contender - and especially if you think the Bellm indicator is worth spending around $70 on.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I shot a lot of Contender rounds in competition and hunting. 7tcu, 730waters, .223. 6tcu and 22 hornet primarily. I never had any gauge. I sized cases by bumping shoulders so the sized case when dropped in the barrel was flush or a thousandth or 2 above the barrel when held vertical.If you are sizing incorrectly it will often missfire. 730 waters is a great little deer gun. When I hunted deer by bicycling back in St Game lands a Contender set up as a carbine was lightweight, shot moa at 100 yds, and killed deer just fine. I hated seeing IMSHA go away in my area. Another fun cartridge and very accurate, often .5 at 100 yards was the 32 H&R mag. Use to eradicate pigeons for a farmer, they exploded when hit by a 90 gr to from that little cartridge. Topped with a 12x Leupold it was a blast.

 

[730waters]

I have been shooting the 730waters for well over 30 years and I don't do anything special to load it up. I have killed a lot of deer and 2 antelope in Wyoming with it. I have also been shooting the 357/44 Bain and Davis since the early 80's. One of my latest additions is a 6mm-06 and a 30-06 in pistol barrels. I load the bullets long with out any powder or primers. I adjust the die down until the barrel will lock up securely. At that point I will drop back around 20 thousandth of an inch and work up my loads from there. Welcome to a true addiction.

 

[radford56]

I shot a lot of Contender rounds in competition and hunting. 7tcu, 730waters, .223. 6tcu and 22 hornet primarily. I never had any gauge. I sized cases by bumping shoulders so the sized case when dropped in the barrel was flush or a thousandth or 2 above the barrel when held vertical.If you are sizing incorrectly it will often missfire. 730 waters is a great little deer gun. When I hunted deer by bicycling back in St Game lands a Contender set up as a carbine was lightweight, shot moa at 100 yds, and killed deer just fine. I hated seeing IMSHA go away in my area. Another fun cartridge and very accurate, often .5 at 100 yards was the 32 H&R mag. Use to eradicate pigeons for a farmer, they exploded when hit by a 90 gr to from that little cartridge. Topped with a 12x Leupold it was a blast.[/QUOTE

Thanks - appreciate the info. I always wanted a 32 H&R barrel, but I never quite got around to picking one up. I thought it would make an interesting barrel for squirrel hunting with wadcutters.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Got my 1st. Of many Contenders in 1979. If it’s a rimed bottleneck cartridge headspace off the shoulder not the rim
Use soft primers CCI = misfires
Learn to replace the hammer spring and keep a spare. When I was shooting competition with them I replaced every year. I buy my springs from Bellm but nothing else. Anybody that enjoys shooting should have at least one Frame and a sack full of barrels

 

[DirtySteve]

Yeah I am an "Expert".... Do not load the 45-70 to auto-eject... lol... It will and it is punishing.. I should have pulled those but was young and dumb..

 

[TC260]

I've never used his headspace indictor and always looked at it as a tool for factory ammo shooters. They use it in conjunction with the breech block shims as a workaround for adjusting the headspace of factory ammo. A reloader can adjust the sizing die so the shims and gauge aren't necessary. At least that's my understanding of it anyway.

In regard to sizing cases, I was originally taught to size cases so it requires a firm snap to close the action. Nothing wrong with that but over time though I found that I prefer to size cases slightly more so that the action closes easily. The same idea as Alex Wheeler describes in this video, just with a break action instead of a bolt.

 

[lb-ft]

This is no criticism of Mr Bellm: he continues to be tremendous for our goofy TC single shots.

HOWEVER,

Gauge not necessary. Your chamber is the most perfect gauge there is for making ammo perfectly suited to your chamber. Pull the barrel and as mentioned already, can measure quite accurately the distance the base of the cartridge protrudes above the end of the barrel, permitting accurate adjustment of seating die until sizing is within spec.

 

[Fuj]

Not a real expert here but spent some time with a Super 14
in 357 Maximum. Traded that barrel off for a 41 Mag. Traded
that whole rig off for a Pre Gettysburgh Ruger Black Hawk
in 41 Mag. When our club was still running 200 yard Rams,
the guy's shooting the Contenders were becoming fewer and
fewer as the XP-100's were dominating.

 

[bsekf]

Every Contender or Encore is a wildcat and you need to fit the case to each frame and barrel. Use feeler gage to measure the distance from breech to barrel(usually .001 -.003, but can be .005). Remove extractor, drop case into chamber and measure the amount the case sticks out of barrel. Adjust the sizing die until you case is within .001 or .002 of the breech. That is you headspace distance. Headspace rimmed, rimless and belted cases off the shoulder. Due to frame flex you need to bump the shoulder every time you reload the case. Keep in mind that if you swap frames and barrels the headspace will change and you have to do this all over. Too much bump and you get case separation, too little and you lose accuracy. I have one of Mike's indicators, but seldom use it. I just use my feeler gages. I use Redding body dies to bump shoulder and a Lee collet die to size necks. I have one rifle I index the cases for and think it shoots a little better. Go to Bellm's site and read his info on reloading. I believe rimmed cases are a little more accurate(has to do with ejector pressure on case).....my story and I'm sticking to it.

Bill

 

[2506]

With the older Contender frames especially DO NOT LOAD A 223 OR 223AI much above a starting load for constant use unless you want to eventually stretch or crack your frame. The 7-30 waters is a great deer round with the 120 Nosler Ballistic Tip. As has been said with rimmed cases set you die up to just bump the shoulder back enough to allow the the rim to just seat snug. I have been loading, shooting and hunting with Contender pistols on and off for 40 years. I have went through numerous calibers. I had MGM make me a custom 14" Shilen barrel in 30-30AI a number of years ago and it has become my favorite for deer. 125 Nosler BT at 2670 fps SMOKES deer. I have one of the 45/410 pistol barrels with back and front sights with internal choke. Does all right with 410 shot shell but with that long bullet jump it is not too accurate with the 45 Colt no matter what load tried.

 

[radford56]

With the older Contender frames especially DO NOT LOAD A 223 OR 223AI much above a starting load for constant use unless you want to eventually stretch or crack your frame. The 7-30 waters is a great deer round with the 120 Nosler Ballistic Tip. As has been said with rimmed cases set you die up to just bump the shoulder back enough to allow the the rim to just seat snug. I have been loading, shooting and hunting with Contender pistols on and off for 40 years. I have went through numerous calibers. I had MGM make me a custom 14" Shilen barrel in 30-30AI a number of years ago and it has become my favorite for deer. 125 Nosler BT at 2670 fps SMOKES deer. I have one of the 45/410 pistol barrels with back and front sights with internal choke. Does all right with 410 shot shell but with that long bullet jump it is not too accurate with the 45 Colt no matter what load tried.

Thanks for the warning on the .223/.223 AI - I saw a similar warning regarding .223's and Contenders on another site. I have an older frame so I'm trying to avoid the frame stretch I've heard so much about. Buy the way, I've never fired a single round of 45 Colt ammo through my 45/410 barrel. I always considered it a .410 only proposition. Worked pretty well on squirrels and other small game up close.

 

[TC260]

I've loaded for close to 6 dozen Contender barrels and never had a frame stretch. They're not that fragile. If you're at all a sensible reloader you'll be fine. It's hot rodding the large diameter cases that tend to cause problems more so than the small ones

 

[bsekf]

TC260, you are correct but IMHO they flex every time you shoot them. That's why you have to bump the shoulder every firing. Now, if you are using very low pressure loads that may not be correct.

 

[TC260]

Yes definitely the frame will flex to some degree during firing. If it didn't strain gauges wouldn't work. I was thinking in terms of damage from permanently stretching the frame which can happen but I think that was more of a problem in the early days when shooters were really pushing the envelope with them and less pressure testing.

 

[JSH]

I have seen personally one Contender frame crack.
Of the several hundred IHMSA folks I know, been very little talk on frames cracking.

Yes there are some questionable cartridges around for them. Even factory chamberings.

One needs to know and understand the limits.

 

[gemihur]

These are valuable perspectives...
The key to detriment of a contender frame is backthrust to the breech wall.
If you look at the action and analyze the points of suspension, all lockup is below line of bore!
Making evident the concern of breech thrust.
The hinge pin acts as the fulcrum and the locking bolt protruding from the barrel block into the receiver's 'table' assures closure.
The size of the case head (it's footprint of thrust) is relative to the pressure to be tolerated.
The chamber walls also influence the aptitude of a cartridge to shift rearward on ignition.
The 30-30 family of cartridges are rated to fall under 45,000 psi for safe use in the contender.
Hence the DuPont reference on the first chart.
A smaller case head, for example the .223 Rem, can be fired at much higher pressure because of it's significantly smaller footprint of breech thrust.
physics

444 Marlin

 

[PopCharlie]

I shot a contender in 22 hornet and 44 mag. The 12 inch 44 mag was exceptionally accurate. The 10 inch hornet was very finicky, but I did get a couple of bullets to shoot.

PopCharlie

 

[Bill K]

No expert, by far, but I load and shoot various TC contender's in several calibers, from 17 to 375. Nothing extra hard about them.
Go to Bellm's TC and read various articles he and his son have on how to set up and check headspace and all. This will aid you very well and should help and answer a lot of your questions.
And Mike is always willing to help new one's with advice, contact him via email or phone, from his website.

 

[0.1 Aggregate]

Yes, an expert commenting on an old thread. Technically, the size of a cartridge case head has nothing to do with breech thrust. If that were true, turning off the rim of a .45-70 case would decrease the breech thrust; it does not. What matters is the maximum inside diameter of the case, this is the area the pressure actually works upon. The breech thrust is calculated by multiplying the pressure in psi by the maximum inside case area in square inches.

You will not stretch a Contender frame with any sane load in the .223 or any similar-sized case. The inside case diameter is simply too small to deliver damaging thrust at SAAMI pressures. It is possible to cause frame damage with larger diameter cases - I know from personal experience. I stretched a frame in the 80s by loading a .35 Remington barrel too hot (with max loads listed in Sierra’s manual). T/C replaced the frame for free even though it was my fault. Loading the .45-70 to .223 pressures would guarantee frame damage from breech thrust.


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