Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR

[fdshuster]

Snowwolfe: Just my opinion, but I still prefer the neck bushing dis(s) over the "standard". For one thing, as your brass work hardens after 15 or so loadings, a smaller pre-bullet seating neck dia. may be required, so it's a simple matter to go with the next .001" smaller in size. Means a lot to me when I typically am getting 30 or slightly more reloads out of a case. Another fly in the ointment with the "standard" sizing die is the requirement that you use the inside neck expander, since the neck will be squeezed down/ reduced much more than is necessary. You will be "working" the brass necks by as much as .010" to .012", firing the as-fired, chamber neck dia. to whatever the "standard" sizer over-reduces it to. With my no-turn chambers & bushing I'm "working" the necks from .272" as fired to .267" as bushing sized. On top of all that, if you use the expander button, there is a greater chance of pulling the case necks out of alignment, resulting in more loaded round run-outs. Just my opinion, and what I think (?) I've learned.

 

[jo191145]

Bushings, Bushings ,Bushings ;D

The biggest reason I use bushing dies. No lube required inside the neck for the expander ball because there is no expander ball required.
I FL size everything now because I've found FL improves accuracy. A little Imperial sizing wax on the outside of the case with a bushing die and I'm done.
With a standard die that oversizes dramatically you need to lube the neck id's also.

What I have witnessed numerous times is the lube inside the neck softens the carbon and the expander than scrapes the carbon out. Not a bad thing altogether but it does not happen with every case sized. Some are scraped clean, some aren't.
This may or may not be directly related to the type of powder used last and how long it sat before reloading. I don't know.
I do know that even after cleaning out the remaining lube and brushing out the necks with a bronze brush these two different conditions result in varying seating pressures/tension.
Accuracy suffers as a result.

Go with the bushing. You'll never know how much aggravation you've saved yourself.

 

[Steve Blair]

Frank and Jo are both correct. Although I anneal every three firings, the same principle holds true. If you switch between naked and moly bullets, the molys will need a little more tension. Adjusting neck tension by .001 can result in decreased (or increased) ES. If you decide to shoot Scenars, I have found that they need about .001 more tension than Sierras.

Go with the bushings, you will not regret it.

 

[Snowwolfe]

Okie Dokie, Redding sizing die and bushings. Perhaps I can get a jump on things with your help as well.
Hopefully the rifle will be ordered tomorrow as well as the dies.
Which two bushings should I start out with using Lapula brass?

Sort of off post but you folks are very informative so might as well ask about twist rates here as well. Doubt if this rifle will ever be shot beyond 300 yards and most of my bench work is done at 100. The single shot Savage is offered with either 1-8 or 1-12, but it also has right bolt, left port and not sure how that will work with me being a lefty.
The 4 shot repeater is offered only in 1-12 and right bolt, right port which is easier to shoot off the bench.
1. Should I stay with the single shot? If so, which twist?
2. If I go with the repeater do these rifles normally feed ok?

 

[Steve Blair]

I have never shot a 6 BR magazine-fed rifle. If Savage offers it, it probably works OK. You can always single-feed.

The 12" twist should be fine for 300 yards. The heavy bullets are for medium to long range (400-1000 yards). The Hornady 58g V-Max in 6mm Remington (9" twist) is deadly accurate.

My current 6BR bushing is a .266 but I turn the necks to .013 wall. That provides about .003 tension. I believe that the necks miked .0135-.014 before turning. That would indicate a .267 or .268 bushing. I have all the bushings from .262 through .270 but I also shoot two 6mm Remington rifles that have different chambers.

 

[jo191145]

For 300 and under I'll second the 12 twist. An 8 twist can definately be made to shoot good at close range but..... Some pills may come apart easier due to the extra rotational twist. Pressures may be slightly higher. And the gun will tend to twist in the bag a tad more. All debatable opinions of course
Besides, its a Savage. Down the line you decide you want to stretch out further you can swap out tubes in a Jiffy.

I like the single shot action for the extra bedding area. I would imagine the RB/RP would be good for a leftie. Still no left handed target action? we'll have to put the pressure on Savage.

I use a 266 bushing for two barrels. That does'nt mean its right. One tube is a .272 and one a .274.
Its a little small for the .274 but due to the long throat the bullet is not in the case much.
It works for both but is still a compromise. If I were to switch back and forth I'd probably forget before a comp and mess up. You'll probably want .268 range but I'll defer my opinion to those who know better.

sleepygator The 58 V-Max really rocks in my 14twist 6BR. Started with the 68 Bergs but the little 58 just one holes at 200yds. I wonder if my 14 is really closer to 15.

 

[Steve Blair]

One of my 6mm Remingtons has a 25.5" 9" twist barrel and 48 grains Varget drives the 58 V-Max at 4055 average. ES/SD at last outing was 9.9/3.95 and a .443 five-shot group. This load completely ruins a crow's day.

QuickLOAD says that a load of 32.0 H322 in a 26" 6BR barrel should give around 3600 fps. That is not giving up much for 2/3 the powder and much better barrel life.

 

[jo191145]

4055fps yikes that has got to be devestating.

I was running in the 3550 range with Benchmark and WS2 coated pills. Only thing I ever shot with that load besides paper was eggs. Even at 3550 the effect on an egg compared to all the match bullets was something to see, and hear.
At 200yds a match bullet just breaks eggs. No sound or theatrics.
Even with all the other guns going off the little V-max really packs a wallop on em. Vaporized and a nice audible "Smack"

Accurate too. 15 eggs 15 shots and 3 pieces of 45 acp brass for a shootoff and. them little pills won the yardage that day. Not bad for a pill thats not much longer than wide
May have to try em in my 243.

 

[fdshuster]

Snowwolfe: My loaded neck dia. with Lapua 6BR brass, unturned/ right out of the box is a consistant .269", maybe just a few ten thousandths over, but I cannot accurately measure to that degree. I usually use a .267" bushing, although I have .266" and .265" for those "special" occassions. Yes, again, I agree with the other postings regarding twist rate(s). If you do not plan on any long-range "work" with the heavier bullets, a 12 or 14 would be fine. As noted in a very fine article in the November issue of "Precision Shooting", page 81, the price you pay for using a faster twist is a very small defect in a bullet will show up sooner, compared to using that same bullet in a slow twist. The articles author says that's one of the reasons the 1 & 200 yd. group shooters, with the 6ppc, continue to use 1-14's. Another yes ( we agree on a lot of different "things" here), for the Hornady 58 gr. V-Max. I was turned onto them shortly after getting my first 6ppc (1998), again by an article in P.S. relating how accurate they are, and they have been so, for me, since around 2000. Very close to the group sizes I can get with my ever-reliable 68 gr. Berger Match flatbase #24411. I keep the Bergers for the match's, but would not feel handicapped if using them in one of our 1,2 & 300 g'hog BR matches, locally.

 

[Snowwolfe]

I bit the "bullet" today and placed the order for the Savage 4 shot repeater with it's 1-12 twist. Ron Shirks had them in stock for $849 and my dealer only charges $10 over his cost. Like the idea of the repeater having the right port right bolt as I shoot left handed and off the bench this should fit me the best. None of the other Savage Rifles had the correct bolt/port combo for a lefty.

Ordered the Redding Type S bushing dies with .268 and .266 bushings and some 80 gr Bergers, 75 grain VMaxes, and 70 gr Nosler Ballistic tips. Also added 100 Lapula cases and have a 6x24 Sightron ready to top it off.

Would like to thank all of you for your help and comments. This has to be about the friendliest forum I have found. Hopefully the rifle will be here in a week and our weather will warm up so I can see what she can do.

 

[MarkS]

Snowwolfe,

The best F/L die are made by Harrell Prec. http://www.harrellsprec.com/fl_die.html. They will fit the die to your chamber, just send them some fired cases. But it is hard to load without dies.

One thing to look at is a Arbor press and Wilson die. I can neck size only with the neck bushing die and seat with the seater. then F/L size with the harrell when needed.

Try some 70 gr Sierria Blitzkings they work best in my 2 12tw. VV N135 is THE powder for bullets 80gr and down. Hodgons Benchmark would be the next choice.

Good shooting with your new gun
Mark Schronce

 

[MarkS]

Snowwolfe,

Some are saying the lighter bullets are limited to 300 yds. Don't limit yourself. I have shot many Egg shoot matches at 500 yds and hit many egg with 68 and 80 gr bullets. I built my First 6BR 12 tw to shoot 80gr bullets for 500 and 600 yds matches. I have one shot kills past 600 yds on Va groundhogs with the 70gr. Blitzkings.

The 8 tw with the VLD bullets do very good at long range, but for hunting varmint I will take the 12 tw every time.

Mark Schronce

 

[jo191145]

Mark

FWIW
I think the 300yd mark was set because Snowwolfe commented he had no intentions at this time to shoot past 300yds. Might have been a different thread in which he asked which Savage twist 8 or 12 for 300 and under.

No doubt a 12 or 14 twist can reach out past 300 very effectively.

Congratulations on your purchase Snowwolfe. I think you'll be quite happy.

 

[Snowwolfe]

Thats correct. 99% of the time I will only shoot at 100 yards and on the rare occasion that it exceeded our range only goes out to 300 yards reguardless.

 

[Jack ingram]

Laurie: I believe if you took a survey the results would show that most of "us" on this side of the pond disregard the "instructions" to adjust the sizer die down 'til it touches the top of the shellholder. For one thing, shellholders do vary in thickness so right there any precision adjustment goes out the window. I've always used the Stoney Point/Hornady gauge with the headspace attachments and take a dimension from a newly fired case, measuring from the base of the case to the datum reference point on the shoulder of the case, and adjust my lock ring on the sizer die to that same dimension, if I want to lock up the loaded round "snuggly" front to rear, in the chamber with a little resistance on bolt closing. When bolt closing becomes too tight/harder to close, I will set the shoulder back about .002", usually after 4 or 5 reloadings. The "screw it down 'til it touches the shellholder" is one-size-fits-all, guaranteeing that all ammo will fit in all chambers, even those that may be short. I have some of my benchrest chamberings (6ppc, 22BR, 6BR) that are so closely fitted I am able to take a fired case, clean it off & reload without any sizing what-so-ever. Brass (Lapua of course) lasts for over 30 loadings with no stretching or trimming required. Usually have to toss it out when primer pockets start to open up.

You were not writing to me but I really appreciate what you wrote as I needed the information you conveyed. Thank you very much. I hope I know something sometime that can help someone as you helped me.

 

[PopCharlie]

I had a custom 6br built with a .266 neck. I had Redding and Whidden dies from my previous 6br (a Cooper Varminter with a 14 twist). After 5 firings on the new brass, I sent 3 pieces and a check to Harrels in Salem VA. He made me a custom f/l bushing die. It accepts Redding and Whidden bushings.
Works great.

PopCharlie