reloading advice. specifically heavy 223 loads.

[LHSmith]

I reloaded for hunting ( more different cartridges/ calibers than I can remember) and informal target (.222 mostly) for 35 years before building my first truly accurate rifle....a 6 PPC LV benchrest 12 years ago. Before the PPC custom ,I could shoot small groups one session and not so great groups the next time out. It was not until I started shooting competition that I started to learn what it takes to keep a rifle in tune through various conditions.......and that you will not shoot dots everytime out no matter what you do......But you can learn to keep the groups small with few fliers (which you can usually explain.....i.e a switch, trigger control, bag position). As a matter of fact , Shooting zeros or ones indicates the load is on the extreme edge of tune....and unlikely to win the agg (i.e. match). I learned about shooting over windflags, monitoring RH during loading, learning where to hold in a mirage( heavy or barely discernable), consistent and proper form in holding the rifle, using a shooting platform that minimizes shooter influence, cold bore shots vs. the 10th shot out of a hot barrel.......all of which lead to TRUST in the rifle. Bottom line is I learned more in one year shooting competition than in all the 35 years previous.
My advice: Take the PPC and develop a load that works in a certain condition to where it is boringly repeatable, and experiment making subtle changes one at a time..... learn from what it tells you it likes... and take lots of notes You should end up saving a lot of components and barrels in the long term.

 

[chevytruck_83]

only thing with the ppc is Clarence builds all of his 6ppc with the same chamber specs barrel twist etc. I purchased his custom dies, bullets and brass he neck turned to the chamber. i load to exact specs he deigned the gun for. so I'm sure the powder charge, primer and bullets he told me to use will work best. shooting that I feel will make me a better shot. dealing with wind trigger pull and all other shooter influences sure. not so much reloading. I wish I had the time and or money to compete. I'm sure I would learn at a 10 fold rate like your saying. not to mention it would be cool to watch the more talented experienced shooters.

 

[LHSmith]

One can produce the most consistent reloads humanly possible...but without condition reading equipment and skills ....wind doping, mirage reading..... (short of a machine rest or testing in a properly built tunnel) any target feedback is inconclusive, non-repeatable and a waste of components and time.
You missed my point.....take that "proven tool" your Hammonds built 6 PPC and LEARN with it....try different bullets, powder, seat depths, learn wind and mirage. Shooting a factory gun at long range produces too many variables with which to draw conclusions.
The comment about not gaining knowledge about reloading through BR cannot be further from the truth. With each lot of components or shooting from one set of conditions early in the match to a totally different set at mid-day requires the competitor to constantly alter (albeit subtle) his loads. By knowledge gained from previous experiences with a known parameter.......( i.e. a rifle/scope combination you can trust), the choice of what to alter becomes a rather short list....and not a random guess based on what you just read on the internet.

 

[chevytruck_83]

fair enough. I see what your saying. bare with me if I sound like I just like to go against the grain. i mean no offense. clearly most of you guys are more talented in every aspect of shooting. I am somewhat stubborn and set on trying to get the most out of my factory 223. with the ppc being as accurate as it is I feel like any changes to the load he gave me would be a step in the wrong direction. it would just tell me how much each factor would effect accuracy. aside from knocking the charge back for temperature. honestly with as fast as it shoots and the fact that I shoot prone mostly or that one off bags. if the ppc goes from .25" to .5" group. its me. more then the gun. and forgive me. but I have no interest in clamping my gun into a vice and watching a flag then pulling the trigger. I feel like thats more of a video game. I understand that tells you more about the load specifically and eliminates me from the. equasion.

 

[LHSmith]

Without flags....and the ability to read mirage, you will NEVER know if it's the equipment or you. Don't fall for the mistaken belief that the PPC load that was given for that rifle will shoot 1/4" all day long on any given day (in any mild to moderate conditions) despite what is claimed by internet shooters.

 

[chevytruck_83]

well I'm asking about heavy(80+ grain bullet) 223 loads. not trying to bicker about what a gun will or wont do.I'm sorry. I know I've shot many groups .25 off bags with this ppc. without flags. not locked in a vice style rest. just shooting between gusts. yes its a fixed Weaver t36 so 100 seems like 50. I almost wish someone with a name that holds water would shoot a couple of my guns and comment for me. they shoot better then they should I guess. anyways. if u doubt me. buy one of Hammonds guns and load to his specs.

 

[LHSmith]

It's not that I doubt you. That is exceptional shooting. Why not, just one time, attend the local IBS match (which is less than 5 miles away), at no registration cost to you, and using your non-vice style rest ( a vice style rest which is not legal in Score BTW) compete with your PPC. Competing against 20 others in a regulated discipline would be a better gauge of your skill level. Worst case = your out $5 in gas...best case = you win the agg, win a few $,and get your name on the IBS webpage. There is always new shooters ,most shooting factory class, so you'll fit in just fine with that Hammonds PPC.

 

[chevytruck_83]

I should have before. I had a gentleman on here that was offering to help me get into it but I decided it was taking the fun out of it. i should have just because he was nice enough to try and help me. maybe next year I will just to say I did.

 

[Rtheurer]

CVY 83

Try that lapua brass with .001 Neck tension and those 80gr Seirra Match Kings

24 to 25gr Varget
24 to 25gr R15
24 Gr N140
23 to 24gr AR Comp

CCI 450 primer or Tula,Small Mag primer
Start at .010 then .015 then . 020 off the lands. five shot groups until something catches your eye.
If your feebore is so long that you cant meet that spec set the OAL at 2.60 and shoot them. Start at 23 grains in all the above powder charges and work up.
One of those will give you the consistant .5 MOA that your looking for. ( I hope)
Those are tried and true performers on our shooting team in a host of barrels for the past 7 years.

Good luck
RT

 

[Bradley Walker]

Midway has the Shilen with the Wylde chamber in stock.

 

[FroggyOne2]

Russ,

Just got off the phone with him.. pretty much what your saying is what I also told him.. and I was talking to him before I had read the rest of this thread.. He is a very nice fellow and a joy to talk to as well.. I like him..

Randy

 

[chevytruck_83]

Thank you for the kind words and all the information as well. it was fun talking to you too.

 

[navyrad8r]

see i told you.. ;D
and that was 2 pages ago..
cheers,
doc

 

[chevytruck_83]

;D

 

[the long shot]

now the question. I'm working up loads for my savage model 12 bvss with 1x7 twist. I've been able to get loads to shoot from. .5-1.5" somewhat inconsistent. with extremely hot heavy loads proving best.(popping primers hot) in an effort to squeeze the .5 accuracy out with safer loads I've been toying with neck thickness, lubing neck before seating the bullet etc. can someone help me find the missing pieces to reloading the most accurate heavy 223 loads. pretty much the only tool I'm not open to getting is an annealer. just due to the price and idea of adding fire to the already dangerous reloading room in my spare bedroom ..thanks, Nick.

I had that problem with my 12 LRPV, the inconsistent MOA. I found out that instead of just neck sizing like I do my '06 Model 110 (which is a bug-holer on its own), I FLed all my brass every time and went with slower powder like Varget. I am trying to squeeze a little more accuracy out of the gun and through discussions with LRPV shooters they recommended I go away from the 77 grain Sierras and shift to 73 grain Bergers. I know the FL idea is odd but it raised the pressure in my loads without blowing primers. I am not sure Benchmark is slow enough for the 1 for 7 twist 223s. My test loads didn't bear out any improvement, actually taking a step back. You might also back off the lands a few thousands. Some guns like the jump, some like a jam fit.

 

[chevytruck_83]

I've read that sometimes fl resizing helps. we had to do that yo squeeze a little more accuracy out of my friends savage 10ba in 308. I've tried that in my bvss but accuracy didn't change. going to go the bushing route and try various tensions. I can feel the diffence in pressure needed to seat one bullet to the next. I'm sure that directly relates to pressure differences

 

[MVW]

I am reading Glenn Zediker's Handloading for Competition. Most except benchrest shooter FL size their brass. You might also read the rifleman's journal.

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/

German makes the case for FL sizing as well.

Mike

 

[FroggyOne2]

Full length size your cases everytime and it will reduce your occurances for troubles down the line..