reloading advice. specifically heavy 223 loads.

[chevytruck_83]

I'm relatively new to reloading. couple years and about 4000 rounds. 9mm 223 308 and 6ppc. for the most part its been easy to get accurate loads for all of them because they are such popular calibers. I could just use quality parts and with some research and consistent techniques get surprisingly good results.
now the question. I'm working up loads for my savage model 12 bvss with 1x7 twist. I've been able to get loads to shoot from. .5-1.5" somewhat inconsistent. with extremely hot heavy loads proving best.(popping primers hot) in an effort to squeeze the .5 accuracy out with safer loads I've been toying with neck thickness, lubing neck before seating the bullet etc. can someone help me find the missing pieces to reloading the most accurate heavy 223 loads. pretty much the only tool I'm not open to getting is an annealer. just due to the price and idea of adding fire to the already dangerous reloading room in my spare bedroom ..thanks, Nick.

 

[chevytruck_83]

added insight. been using lapua and nosler brass. best luck with nosler. varget 4064 tac rl15 powder etc etc. 80 grain smk 75 hornady. 85 Barnes match burner 80 berger vld. neck sizing standard. non bushing. fl sizing. o and fed match primers.. think I mag run these for my 69 gtainers in my other 223 and try cooler primers in this.

 

[jonbearman]

Go back to the load that gave you.5 inches and go up in .1 grains and down.Seems you already hit the sweet spot unless I am misunderstanding.Why not try benchmark as I have had great results with it.H322 is also a good powder in .223.

 

[chevytruck_83]

sorry. I'm not always very clear. I've tried 322 a little but not benchmark. I loaded something like 20 different combinations when I got the sweet spot. I shoot 2, 5 shot groups to keep as data. problem is when I went to reload more to that recipe I was popping primers. my guess is that somehow I got cci primers in the original ten and mistakingly wrote fed match. so when I reloaded with federal match they were much hotter. I guess I should drop the charge a little and retry with cci. Im always doing research and soaking up anything I can from sites like this one to become a better shot and reloader. so I thought maybe there were some 223 fanatics that have learned something that maybe the heavier loads need thay the lighter 69 range. like less neck tension. colder primer. etc.

 

[navyrad8r]

nick i think you are already on the right track. if you are having to run stout loads to get best performance consider getting your firing pin bushed by gre-tan, consider harder primers wolf/tula or any of the "military" primers and maybe try bullets that like to jump versus the jam of the vlds (the 80.5 bergers come to mind jump 10~15 thous? RL15, varget, 4064, tac, and of course H322 and benchmark are all "standards" as well as VV540/140. jon has given some great advice about finding the right charge, just play with seating depths and all should work itself out. if you decice to go to the 90vlds shoot an email to laurie or froggyone2 they are pretty accomplished with those 90s and i am sure there are many others that can drive them well too.
cheers,
doc

 

[chevytruck_83]

great... now I gotta learn what getting my firing pin bushed means. the more you learn the more you realize you don't know... ???

 

[jonbearman]

Bushing the firing pin hole in the bolt face.Sometimes there is too much clearance between the firing pin and the hole it protrudes through.This will cause the primer to crater or rupture sometimes.I would talk to gre-tan before you would consider it,to see if he does savage bolts.If you are running hot loads,a primer rupture can happen,it is just a fact of life.I had a remington that did it.Sent it in and a week later it was back and now works perfect with no more ruptures. Look up vendors and gre-tan should be there or google it.Talk straight to greg tannel about your problem.He does outstanding work and quick turn around.

 

[acloco]

Ugh....you have a seriously loaded question. In all honesty, and NOT being a smarty pants, there are several books written on this subject (does not just apply to heavy for caliber 223 either).

I would start with controlling neck tension AND runout of loaded rounds.

Change ONE component in a load and start over. It can make a big difference.


In your post, you wrote down Fed Match, but might have been CCI....you need to be extremely anal at reloading. Mistakes can cost a reloader physical damage to themselves, let alone their firearm.

I would visit H4895. Seems to be my "go to" powder for 223 size cases, which includes 223, 223 AI, 222 Magnum AI, and 22 Feisty (REALLY long 222 Magnum AI).

 

[FroggyOne2]

Chev,

If you want to talk about it.. give me a pm.. I will give you my number and we can cover this faster on the phone.

Randy

 

[Lapua40X]

I'd buy into navyrd8tr's approach. Take the most accurate load you've developed thus far and work on a range of bullet seating depths. You can only play with primer/powder combinations for so long before you run out of options and very often a slight change in bullet seating depth satisfies the curiosity.

 

[chevytruck_83]

when developing a new load ill do some research and see whats working for others. both online and in various reloading books.then ill choose a bullet and powder combination that is reasonably priced and easily available. (Cabelas is close. so usually a product they carry) then ill pick a medium to slightly warm load according to books. ill keep the powder charge and all other variables the same and load bullets in lengths varying by 10 thousands. typically 3 shot groups. then when I find a window it likes ill load 5 shots the same in 5 thousands inctiments. then when I'm confident I hit the length it likes ill slowly adjust the charge. this time I just had a hikup with primers somehow. then I got into neck turning and troubleshooting. so I was wandering if the more advanced techniques are necessary if I'm not benchrest competition shooting. I did neck turn 10 cases and compare them to 10 of the same unturned and could see no difference. also .7 grain drop using h4895 and federal match primers seems to get me where the cooler cci primers was. food for thought while working more loads.

 

[MVW]

I have two Savage's one in 223 and one in 308. I have put more rounds down range in the 308 than I care to admit. Different seating depths, powders, primers, factory loads and they all shot much like you describe for your gun. On a whim I switched from Sierra to Berger bullets and everything came together. 1/3 MOA groups without any particular load development.

The morale to the story is not that Bergers were better bullets. Rather, I took the gun to my gunsmith and had him borescope the barrel for kicks. He found high spots at three or four place, one in the leads and one an inch or so back from the muzzle and several others along the barrel.

I like the Savage action, but barrels are... well - it is a factory gun. My suggestion is pay a smith $50 to assess the barrel before going crazy on load development.

Greg at Gre-Tan (advertises on this site) put bushings in my bolts and it took less than a week.

Mike

 

[timeout]

Plus 1 on Gre-Tan bushing the bolt and quick turn around time. I am also a fan of Berger bullets and playing with the seating depth to find the sweet spot. I will add that it can all be very frustrating with a barrel not capable of ever being accurate. You may want to ask Santa for a new barrel! I have a Remington now with a factory barrel that just will not shoot to my satisfaction. I have replaced the stock, pillar bedded with Devcon, installed a Jewell trigger, tried boo-coo different bullets, charge weights and seating depths. It is still not satisfactory. I have a new barrel blank on hand and it will be installed this coming year. In actuality, all of the time and money spent with load testing, I could have just bought a new barrel to start with.

 

[rockrat]

Don't know if you want to go lighter in bullet weight, but my BVSS takes a shine to 60gr Hornady Vmax, over TAC and wolf mag primers

 

[chevytruck_83]

my bvss has a 1x7 twist. ill try a little more load development and see if I can get half inch consistently. big reason I believe it can is because my fcp-k will shoot groups better then anyone on this site will believe. but it very well could be the barrel. if so ill probably go with a 1x8 twist.

 

[MVW]

Timeout you are absolutely correct. I have a new barrel on order! 12 weeks and counting. That said, I have learned a lot about reloading in the process of sorting this out.

Mike

 

[chevytruck_83]

that's it too. I'm the type that would sooner fault myself then the equipment. so like you said. in an effort to see if I can acquire. 5" consistently with this barrel ill also be improving my reloading ability. I think the reason I didn't see an improvement with the neck turned is while I gained a little more consistancy I think the lower neck tension/easier neck expansion when fired dropped my fps. causing similar results on target. maybe the neck turned will prove more accurate with a little more powder.

 

[MVW]

I am not one to place fault on equipment either, but Boyd rightfully noted to me that I would be further ahead had I gotten the gun and bullets sorted out first. In the interest of trying to sort this out, I changed many things, many of which probably had minimal impact either + or -. I will say it is more fun to see the groups begin to converge to a dot.

Just one perspective.

Mike

 

[hogan]

You want ADVICE?


I advise buying Sierra bullet you prefer and latest copy of their manual. Start by using their Accuracy Load recommendations.

Your post outlines your procedure, but not what the hell you mean by "heavy loads"... Heavy powder charge?
Heavy bullet weight? Maybe the rifle weight? Just what bullet are you shooting with what powder and which primer?

A lotta folks love Savage, but maybe you have a bummer factory barrel? If you've been shooting 10 or 20 rds of each load variant you've tried, and you say you've varied by .1 grain in search of "the sweet spot"; if you tried a couple different primers, a couple bullets, couple of powders, you may have just shot out your barrel?

Really, how many rounds have you fired in your Savage? Presumably you have tuned your trigger? Maybe set your headspace for go-gauge plus .0005 or .001? Got your stock all sorted out, bedded and action screws tuned with a torque wrench? Got quality scope mounts and scope you are SURE of?

Not trying to shoot 90gr jlk are you? Not enough twist might be your problem.

I am always amused by the diligent tyros who shoot their barrel life down the drain when they could begin with a proven accuracy load and do a bit of fine-tuning and be done. If you expect more than you're getting from a factory barreled production rifle, you might try a new barrel from a quality maker. Shilen makes drop-in pre-fits for Savage, hard to go wrong with Shilen...

 

[chevytruck_83]

heavy bullets. the barrel that originaly came on the gun was bad. id like to think this ones good. ive got many groups that seem promising enough to continue. I'm not a rifle builder. i am not a 1000 yard competitor. this is also not my only or most accurate gun. i have a hammonds built ppc ill shoot if punching one into another till the barrel is shots my desire. its not right now. I'm in the phase where I'm enjoying working up a load for the 1x7 twist. learning y certain things change results and others do not. if my approach bothers or amuses u I'm sorry. I appreciate your advice either way. I have several reloading books and do a lot of research before picking a starting point. before i started reloading i put a post asking for everyone to recommend the best reloading books. I went to a local Cabelas and got them. sierra, nosler layman's 223 specific etc.