reloading 223 for an AR and a bolt gun ?

[rebs]

I keep my brass seperate for my AR and 223 bolt rifle all of which is Lake City brass. When resizing what do I have to do different for each rifle as far as shoulder bump ? Where should the shoulder be for the bolt gun and where should it be for the AR ?

 

[watercam]

Most offer that for the AR the shoulder should be pushed back about .003" for the sake of feeding. For bolt guns about .001". No reason you can not use the AR bump in a bolt gun, just works the brass a little more and might have a minimal bullet off-set in the chamber (since the shoulder is less engaged into the chamber). I doubt you would see the difference on paper unless you are shooting beyond 500 yds..
That being said I sized my cases to a .001" bump and they fed into my AR with no issues. I do not use the same brass for both though, the AR brass get fairly beat up.

 

[Fliers]

I've also read you want .003" minimum neck tension on an AR system, and .002 or .001 for bolt. But, I've also read somebody say once it's seated, they are all .001" tension, but I don't think I'm buying that theory yet. As somebody posted if he doesn't have .003" at seating, his bullets get pushed back into the case when loading.

 

[rebs]

I've also read you want .003" minimum neck tension on an AR system, and .002 or .001 for bolt. But, I've also read somebody say once it's seated, they are all .001" tension, but I don't think I'm buying that theory yet. As somebody posted if he doesn't have .003" at seating, his bullets get pushed back into the case when loading.

I was asking about shoulder set back.

 

[fyrewall]

Is your AR barrel stamped, 5.6X45 NATO or .223 ? - this should have no effect on sizing but needs to be known. Wise to separate cases. Completely resize case for the AR so ammo easily fits chamber to avoid bad stuff like stuck ammo & slam fires - this means more shoulder set back than used for bolt gun. Consider getting a gauge to determine sizing. .003 sounds good for the AR that relies on a spring vs. bolt handle with strong wrist. I would small base size any once fired brass from funny unknown chambers for both AR & bolt should you go that route. I buy bulk lots of once fired .223 and 5.6X45 (stuff with Nato circle w. cross) and small base size all that stuff with moderate set back.

 

[Bill K]

For good feeding and function in your AR, it is advised to use a small base sizing die and set the shoulder back around .002 . Actually the same method would work in your bolt rifle, however many, in keeping the ammo separate for a given firearm would just neck size in the bolt action.
And use a very slight crimp on the neck/bullet for the AR.

 

[rebs]

Thank you guys for the replies The barrel on my AR is stamped 5.56. It is a Colt match target competition model with 20" heavy barrel.
My bolt gun is a Tikka T3x varmint with 223 heavy barrel.

 

[Uncle Ed]

I've also read you want .003" minimum neck tension on an AR system, and .002 or .001 for bolt. But, I've also read somebody say once it's seated, they are all .001" tension, but I don't think I'm buying that theory yet. As somebody posted if he doesn't have .003" at seating, his bullets get pushed back into the case when loading.

Many reloaders with a AR15 use a Lyman type "M" expander for .003 neck tension. And also bump the case mouth onto the .226 section of the expander to aid straight inline seating. And then add a very slight taper crimp to streamline the case mouth for feeding.

 

[Beau]

All things being equal, you should be able to load the bolt gun hotter. But things like chambers and firing pin hole clearance can change that.

 

[Billy 30-06]

I use a Lee FL die for my AR-15s. For my bolt .223s I use a Redding bushing neck die with out the expander ball. I seat bullets with the Forster bench rest die.
Billy

 

[fyrewall]

I like to crimp with a Lee crimp die in a separate operation - I can look down into the operation and see the crimping operation occur, this gives me a good feel of what is happening. Zippo edge at junction of neck & bullet.

 

[mac86951]

Hmm, I'll post my AR findings here to offset some others. First: I have for several years shot 600y F-AR at our local club to make for a real fun challenge.

I have tried several AR Chambers 5.56, 5.56 match, 223 Wylde, and straight 223.

My reloading practice for my AR begins with careful shoulder measurement. Not to be difficult; I have no idea what your intended use it, thus I don't have a specific recommendation. Here's why; if you're shooting a low cost 5.56 with bulk 55gr ammo; you almost certainly have a rifle that may be deemed "over gassed" by us AR super geeks. Nothing wrong; it's designed to function and does that well. In this instance though, your gas system may be trying to release your brass ever so slightly before it's really ready. This is where the default "0.003-0.005" shoulder setback recommendation comes from.

Even with my gas system dialed in to just lock back on an empty mag; I still set back shoulders 0.003.

Of interest is how you measure shoulder set-back. Use a Hornady tool, or an RCBS precision mic, and you'll be set. Wilson headspace gauges can be good; but extractor scratches and AR case-head swipe all interfere with a valid measurement (in fact this applies to all the measurement tools).

I hope that points you in a valid direction?

As for the neck tension; it's to keep ammunition in the magazine safe during use. Crimp is better, but harder to control. 0.003ish neck tension typically works but runs risk, so be careful.

As for small base dies; I only need the when reloading range brass tossed by over gassed 3-gun guys. Again; not a problem; over gassed is the safe way to ensure reliable for all ammo, bit is tougher on the brass. Me? I give each case a name, and darn it if I didn't lose little Johnny Winchester last spring and I'm still distraught.

While we're at it; case head swipe is a sure sign over over gassed or over pressure for your rifle. Rifle mods can reduce case head swipe. Pierced primers mean way way over pressure.

Good luck and good shooting,
Mac

 

[Liven The Dream]

AR-15 - .223 Bolt Gun . Two different Kids.
I shot both in NRA type matches for years. keep the brass separate as stated above .

I used a RCBS SB FL Sizer with carbide Ball for all the Brass . I set the shoulder back as close to .002 as possible. Trim your Brass to Min.
Primers where different ? Bolt Gun Fed. 205M only . AR 200 and 300 yards Winchester White Box (old stuff ) 600 yards Fed. 205M .
Never Crimped a Bullet in either Rifle. Had Wyle Chambers in all ( one Match chamber once same to me). Bullets 69 Sierra , 75 Hornady, 80 and 80.5
Sierra, Berger, Hornady Nosler.
Powder R-15 was the best all around for the AR's 200 to 600 yards. R-15 worked well in Bolt Gun also, Bolt Gun only 600 yard Matches.
Never had good luck, like others with Remington 71/2 Primers or Varget Power for all yards to shooting.

With the AR shooting Matches (in early 90's ) I had loads for every yard line .
200 with 69's 322 Powder , 300 748 Powder 600 BR2015 . Shot some Big scores back then.
Then one day after the Match didn't clean my Rifle ( lesson learned ). Shot the next day at 600 the Powder Fowling happened.
R-15 from that day on...
Hope I did not miss something ?

I just finished a AR-15 Match Rifle all the new toys. I will start where I left off years ago with loading.

Best of Luck

 

[tomswede]

Set the sboulders back .002-.003 for the AR’s ( all Wylde chambers). Standard Redding sizing die. No crimp ever. Seat with a Redding Mach seater.
R15 and Rem 7 1/2 primers have worked well for me with 77’s and 80’s.
Probably start with the same if I had a bolt gun.