Reloader newbie

[TDR911]

I have a Dillon 550 and need to deprime military 223 brass. The standard dillon deprime / sizing die will bend the tips. Is there a heavy duty deprime/size die to use or do I need to trim the crimps out. If so how and what tools required.
I also noticed there are 2 different type brass . One with a center hole . I have now made a punch and can remove the primers. The other is with 2 smaller holes at the sides instead of a center hole. Can the primers be removed from this brass.
Thanks

 

[Mikem]

I cant help you with a question about the Dillon 550.
But about the brass you have, the single flash hole is called Boxer primed, and the cases with two flash holes is called Berdan primed, and though the Berdan cases can be reloaded, its normally not. So I would suggest you through it out.
When doing case prep on Military brass, you deprime first, and I turn out the crimps after depriming, with a case neck chauffeuring tool, on both types of crimp, the three dent type and the ring crimp.
Also as Military brass is heaver,,so it will stand up to the violent action of a machine gun), its case wall thickness at the head, walls and its weight are the main difference in 223 and 5.56MM ammo, that you have. As the case walls are thicker, that makes the case heaver, and it will hold slightly less powder than a 223 case. So your loads should be reduced 10% to start.
Sierras reloading book, has a lot of good info on reloading Military brass.
Remember to full length size and trim the length to the book specks.
Good Luck. Mike.

 

[2506]

You do not have to worry about dropping the powder back 10% below published data with the 5.56/223 Rem. cases because there is not that much difference in military and commercial cases. Now with 7.62X51/308 and 30-06 military cases yes you need to drop the powder back 1 grain below published data.
The only way to reload burdan,those two flash hole cases) is with a special tool that works like an old pop bottle opener in a way to pry the primers out. Then you need burdan primers to reload with. A regular primer for boxer primed,one flash hole)cases will not work. Put those burdan primed cases in your scrap brass can to recycle.

If you have a great big bunch of military cases that need the primer crimp removed it would pay you to get one of the primer pocket swedging die set tools from RCBS. It will save on sore fingers and wrist from all that holding and twisting of the case and chamfer tool.

 

[Winchester69]

Get a universal de-priming die. Lee's is the cheapest,otherwise they wouldn't sell one). Lyman has one made of tool steel; it's higher, but still cheaper than the others. RCBS has a model that they describe as Heavy Duty, but it's not for .223.

You can also de-prime off-press. Lee has a punch and base. So does Wilson, but it costs more. Lee says that there punch is guaranteed unbreakable. I don't know whether that means they think highly of it, or that they will actually replace it.
.

 

[Mikem]

When you pick up, or buy any Military size cases, 223, 308 or 30-06 look to see if it has two flash holes. Even when you buy cheap loaded ammo, the box will often say, if not ask. If it does have Berdan priming, dont buy it, unless you plan to just shoot it and not reload it. But I wouldn't even do that. If its range pick up, drop it in the trash, there more trouble to reload than there worth. The Berdan priming is all about what country made it, but its not made in the US.
The last time I got once fired 223/5.56 brass, it was off E-Bay, 250 Lake city cases for $12. Don't mess with Berdan junk.

 

[alamo_308]

Don't mess with Berdan junk.

Swiss GP11 (Berdan primed) is certainly not junk. You will not find any finer, higher-quality, consistently-accurate military surplus ammo than this stuff. It is match-grade out-of-the-box, made by Rüstungs Unternehmen Aktiengesellschaft/RUAG Ammotec to the highest standards. This primo brass is way too good to throw away.
Using the RCBS Berdan decapper, I can pop out 50+ of these primers per hour, sitting and watching TV or a DVD movie. Plenty of Berdan primers available from Graf & Sons. Easy to reload.

 

[CatShooter]

"Also as Military brass is heaver so it will stand up to the violent action of a machine gun), its case wall thickness at the head, walls and its weight are the main difference in 223 and 5.56MM ammo, that you have. As the case walls are thicker, that makes the case heaver, and it will hold slightly less powder than a 223 case. So your loads should be reduced 10% to start."

Good Luck. Mike.

The extraction of a "machine gun" is no more violent than the extraction of an AR-15 or a Mini-14.

Military 5.56 cases are not heavier than commercial 223 - They both weigh ~90-93 grains. I would suggest you weigh a few cases, and stop spreading internet myths.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/

The 5.56 and 223 use the same loading data, and take the similar loads.

 

[ar10ar15man]

while i agree with the generic statement that 5.56 brass is not 10% away from commercial 223 rem brass,
it is imperitive that you weigh/volume check YOUR brass.
brass varies a lot and basing a load on a large volume case and then loading into a small volume case in the same lot can lead to a big suprise..
sample your brass...work up based on the middle with consideration for what happens at both ends.

"Also as Military brass is heaver so it will stand up to the violent action of a machine gun), its case wall thickness at the head, walls and its weight are the main difference in 223 and 5.56MM ammo, that you have. As the case walls are thicker, that makes the case heaver, and it will hold slightly less powder than a 223 case. So your loads should be reduced 10% to start."

Good Luck. Mike.

The extraction of a "machine gun" is no more violent than the extraction of an AR-15 or a Mini-14.

Military 5.56 cases are not heavier than commercial 223 - They both weigh ~90-93 grains. I would suggest you weigh a few cases, and stop spreading internet myths.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/

The 5.56 and 223 use the same loading data, and take the similar loads.

 

[CatShooter]

while i agree with the generic statement that 5.56 brass is not 10% away from commercial 223 rem brass,
it is imperitive that you weigh/volume check YOUR brass.

brass varies a lot and basing a load on a large volume case and then loading into a small volume case in the same lot can lead to a big suprise [sic]..
sample your brass...work up based on the middle with consideration for what happens at both ends.

I gather you don't load much 223/5.56 brass.

It might be fun to get volume data on 20 cases (if there is nothing good on TV), but getting volume data on 100, 500 or 20,000 cases can get a bit tiring... cuz it is all the same and there are no "Big surprises" coming.

And "IF" you have case weights that are high and low enough to worry about, then working up a load for the middle, is very badd advice - you work up loads based on the heaviest cases, not the middle... better yet, you segregate the cases by weight - but with 223/5.56, there is not enough variation to worry about.

What reloading booklet did you get this stuff from??

 

[Lapua40X]

You do not have to worry about dropping the powder back 10% below published data with the 5.56/223 Rem. cases because there is not that much difference in military and commercial cases.

I would agree if you're working with loads that are somewhere mid range on the chart. But load low and work up because once you get into the higher load ranges you're pushing the edge of the safety margin pretty hard.

 

[CatShooter]

You do not have to worry about dropping the powder back 10% below published data with the 5.56/223 Rem. cases because there is not that much difference in military and commercial cases.

I would agree if you're working with loads that are somewhere mid range on the chart. But load low and work up because once you get into the higher load ranges you're pushing the edge of the safety margin pretty hard.

Tell me something... just how many 223/5.56 rounds have you loaded in the past few years??

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[ar10ar15man]

you have no clue....
current inventory is SEVEN AR 15'S IN EITHER 5.56 OR 223 REM.
ONE IN 7.62X39
ONE IN 6BEGGS
TWO 308'S
ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION....1000's......
i buy multiple CASES/SLEEVES OF 5.56 PRIMERS AT A TIME.......
i buy bullets by the case
i buy brass by the bucket full
i shoot everything from 55gr fmjs to 75 gr long range stuff...no 80's or 90's.
i shoot BENCHREST with three of the rifles
i shoot three gun with the 7.62x39, one of the 308 wins and one of the 5.56 natos 15's
i shoot long range with a 1/7 26" krieger.
MY BR BRASS IS AS LITTLE AS PLUS OR MINUS 0.05 IN WEIGHT..MATCHED VOLUME.

on the subject of brass variation...read john feamsters book..BLACK MAGIC.
HE STARTED WITH A SINGLE LOT OF 500 pc of win brass....
when he was done i bought the brass and did a wieght sort.......
it expailns a lot of the flyers he had in testing.
one 500 ps lot..ranged from 89.6 to 94.5......almost a 5 gr variation
there were 23 lite pcs and 21 heavy pcs....pick one of those and shoot it in a lot of 9 that were in the middle and you have a flyer.
develope your high end load on the middle brass and load a couple on the heavy side and bingo ..popped primer.

add something to the conversation...do not just whine

while i agree with the generic statement that 5.56 brass is not 10% away from commercial 223 rem brass,
it is imperitive that you weigh/volume check YOUR brass.

brass varies a lot and basing a load on a large volume case and then loading into a small volume case in the same lot can lead to a big suprise [sic]..
sample your brass...work up based on the middle with consideration for what happens at both ends.

I gather you don't load much 223/5.56 brass.

It might be fun to get volume data on 20 cases (if there is nothing good on TV), but getting volume data on 100, 500 or 20,000 cases can get a bit tiring... cuz it is all the same and there are no "Big surprises" coming.

And "IF" you have case weights that are high and low enough to worry about, then working up a load for the middle, is very badd advice - you work up loads based on the heaviest cases, not the middle... better yet, you segregate the cases by weight - but with 223/5.56, there is not enough variation to worry about.

What reloading booklet did you get this stuff from??

 

[CatShooter]

My last bunch of 5.56 brass came in an 18 wheeled truck and needed a fork lift truck to bring them into the shop... finished weight of the ammo was almost 18 tons.

I never had any "big surprises" with pressure.

Eric is right - you need some cookies.

you have no clue....
current inventory is SEVEN AR 15'S IN EITHER 5.56 OR 223 REM.
ONE IN 7.62X39
ONE IN 6BEGGS
TWO 308'S
ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION....1000's......
i buy multiple CASES/SLEEVES OF 5.56 PRIMERS AT A TIME.......
i buy bullets by the case
i buy brass by the bucket full
i shoot everything from 55gr fmjs to 75 gr long range stuff...no 80's or 90's.
i shoot BENCHREST with three of the rifles
i shoot three gun with the 7.62x39, one of the 308 wins and one of the 5.56 natos 15's
i shoot long range with a 1/7 26" krieger.
MY BR BRASS IS AS LITTLE AS PLUS OR MINUS 0.05 IN WEIGHT..MATCHED VOLUME.

on the subject of brass variation...read john feamsters book..BLACK MAGIC.
HE STARTED WITH A SINGLE LOT OF 500 pc of win brass....
when he was done i bought the brass and did a wieght sort.......
it expailns a lot of the flyers he had in testing.
one 500 ps lot..ranged from 89.6 to 94.5......almost a 5 gr variation
there were 23 lite pcs and 21 heavy pcs....pick one of those and shoot it in a lot of 9 that were in the middle and you have a flyer.
develope your high end load on the middle brass and load a couple on the heavy side and bingo ..popped primer.

add something to the conversation...do not just whine

while i agree with the generic statement that 5.56 brass is not 10% away from commercial 223 rem brass,
it is imperitive that you weigh/volume check YOUR brass.

brass varies a lot and basing a load on a large volume case and then loading into a small volume case in the same lot can lead to a big suprise [sic]..
sample your brass...work up based on the middle with consideration for what happens at both ends.

I gather you don't load much 223/5.56 brass.

It might be fun to get volume data on 20 cases (if there is nothing good on TV), but getting volume data on 100, 500 or 20,000 cases can get a bit tiring... cuz it is all the same and there are no "Big surprises" coming.

And "IF" you have case weights that are high and low enough to worry about, then working up a load for the middle, is very badd advice - you work up loads based on the heaviest cases, not the middle... better yet, you segregate the cases by weight - but with 223/5.56, there is not enough variation to worry about.

What reloading booklet did you get this stuff from??

 

[ar10ar15man]

COMMERCIALLY RELOADED AMMO IN 223 IS SELDOM DONE ANYWHERE NEAR MAX pressure or velocity.
too much of a liability........so yes you build in a cushion to make sure the small cases do not over pressure.....
so while YOU may not get concerned about case volume, a hand loader building accurate ammo..may...some of us do.

commercal reloaded ammo and custom hand loads have little in common

My last bunch of 5.56 brass came in an 18 wheeled truck and needed a fork lift truck to bring them into the shop... finished weight of the ammo was almost 18 tons.

I never had any "big surprises" with pressure.

Eric is right - you need some cookies.

you have no clue....
current inventory is SEVEN AR 15'S IN EITHER 5.56 OR 223 REM.
ONE IN 7.62X39
ONE IN 6BEGGS
TWO 308'S
ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION....1000's......
i buy multiple CASES/SLEEVES OF 5.56 PRIMERS AT A TIME.......
i buy bullets by the case
i buy brass by the bucket full
i shoot everything from 55gr fmjs to 75 gr long range stuff...no 80's or 90's.
i shoot BENCHREST with three of the rifles
i shoot three gun with the 7.62x39, one of the 308 wins and one of the 5.56 natos 15's
i shoot long range with a 1/7 26" krieger.
MY BR BRASS IS AS LITTLE AS PLUS OR MINUS 0.05 IN WEIGHT..MATCHED VOLUME.

on the subject of brass variation...read john feamsters book..BLACK MAGIC.
HE STARTED WITH A SINGLE LOT OF 500 pc of win brass....
when he was done i bought the brass and did a wieght sort.......
it expailns a lot of the flyers he had in testing.
one 500 ps lot..ranged from 89.6 to 94.5......almost a 5 gr variation
there were 23 lite pcs and 21 heavy pcs....pick one of those and shoot it in a lot of 9 that were in the middle and you have a flyer.
develope your high end load on the middle brass and load a couple on the heavy side and bingo ..popped primer.

add something to the conversation...do not just whine

while i agree with the generic statement that 5.56 brass is not 10% away from commercial 223 rem brass,
it is imperitive that you weigh/volume check YOUR brass.

brass varies a lot and basing a load on a large volume case and then loading into a small volume case in the same lot can lead to a big suprise [sic]..
sample your brass...work up based on the middle with consideration for what happens at both ends.

I gather you don't load much 223/5.56 brass.

It might be fun to get volume data on 20 cases (if there is nothing good on TV), but getting volume data on 100, 500 or 20,000 cases can get a bit tiring... cuz it is all the same and there are no "Big surprises" coming.

And "IF" you have case weights that are high and low enough to worry about, then working up a load for the middle, is very badd advice - you work up loads based on the heaviest cases, not the middle... better yet, you segregate the cases by weight - but with 223/5.56, there is not enough variation to worry about.

What reloading booklet did you get this stuff from??

 

[CatShooter]

So you know what pressures we loaded our ammunition to.

Pray tell, just what pressure was that??? I have a pressure gun - how do YOU measure pressure??

And now you are an expert in someone elses "Cushion"... sonny, you make it up as you go along.

You deserve two cookies for you now.

COMMERCIALLY RELOADED AMMO IN 223 IS SELDOM DONE ANYWHERE NEAR MAX pressure or velocity.
too much of a liability........so yes you build in a cushion to make sure the small cases do not over pressure.....
so while YOU may not get concerned about case volume, a hand loader building accurate ammo..may...some of us do.

commercal reloaded ammo and custom hand loads have little in common

My last bunch of 5.56 brass came in an 18 wheeled truck and needed a fork lift truck to bring them into the shop... finished weight of the ammo was almost 18 tons.

I never had any "big surprises" with pressure.

Eric is right - you need some cookies.

 

[ar10ar15man]

how much do you pay for your liability ins ??
somehow i bet they would reconsider your policy if you were not producing "generic safe consumer" ammo...
dollar always trumps....
can they be chocolate chip ??

So you know what pressures we loaded our ammunition to.

Pray tell, just what pressure was that??? I have a pressure gun - how do YOU measure pressure??

And now you are an expert in someone elses "Cushion"... sonny, you make it up as you go along.

You deserve two cookies for you now.

COMMERCIALLY RELOADED AMMO IN 223 IS SELDOM DONE ANYWHERE NEAR MAX pressure or velocity.
too much of a liability........so yes you build in a cushion to make sure the small cases do not over pressure.....
so while YOU may not get concerned about case volume, a hand loader building accurate ammo..may...some of us do.

commercal reloaded ammo and custom hand loads have little in common

My last bunch of 5.56 brass came in an 18 wheeled truck and needed a fork lift truck to bring them into the shop... finished weight of the ammo was almost 18 tons.

I never had any "big surprises" with pressure.

Eric is right - you need some cookies.

 

[CatShooter]

What a surprise... You keep avoiding the real questions.

You are a child that reads too much garbage on the internet and doesn't have the real experience to filter out the BS - so you believe it all.

Don't blow yourself up in the process with all of those high pressure loads you make.

how much do you pay for your liability ins ??
somehow i bet they would reconsider your policy if you were not producing "generic safe consumer" ammo...
dollar always trumps....
can they be chocolate chip ??

So you know what pressures we loaded our ammunition to.

Pray tell, just what pressure was that??? I have a pressure gun - how do YOU measure pressure??

And now you are an expert in someone elses "Cushion"... sonny, you make it up as you go along.

You deserve two cookies for you now.

COMMERCIALLY RELOADED AMMO IN 223 IS SELDOM DONE ANYWHERE NEAR MAX pressure or velocity.
too much of a liability........so yes you build in a cushion to make sure the small cases do not over pressure.....
so while YOU may not get concerned about case volume, a hand loader building accurate ammo..may...some of us do.

commercal reloaded ammo and custom hand loads have little in common

My last bunch of 5.56 brass came in an 18 wheeled truck and needed a fork lift truck to bring them into the shop... finished weight of the ammo was almost 18 tons.

I never had any "big surprises" with pressure.

Eric is right - you need some cookies.

 

[bigedp51]

CatShooter

Whatever you and Eric do "DO NOT FEED HIM COOKIES..........................

If you feed him he might never go away.

We already know that ar10ar15man can fly a hot air balloon without a gas bottle and burner.

 

[Phil3]

COMMERCIALLY RELOADED AMMO IN 223 IS SELDOM DONE ANYWHERE NEAR MAX pressure or velocity.
too much of a liability........so yes you build in a cushion to make sure the small cases do not over pressure.....
so while YOU may not get concerned about case volume, a hand loader building accurate ammo..may...some of us do.

commercal reloaded ammo and custom hand loads have little in common

I would agree, and so was shocked to find Blackhills red box 223 Remington 55 FMJ 55 grain ammo showing pressure signs in my AR-15. Slightly flattened primers, ejector plunger smearing on brass, as well as line on brass from extractor seam on bolt face. Other ammo fired showed none of these signs. The cases were all "WCC 09", with the little NATO emblem. I took pics of the cases and asked some others and they pretty much all said "excessive pressure". I guess lesson learned, check any and all rounds fired.

Phil

 

[CatShooter]

COMMERCIALLY RELOADED AMMO IN 223 IS SELDOM DONE ANYWHERE NEAR MAX pressure or velocity.
too much of a liability........so yes you build in a cushion to make sure the small cases do not over pressure.....
so while YOU may not get concerned about case volume, a hand loader building accurate ammo..may...some of us do.

commercal reloaded ammo and custom hand loads have little in common

I would agree, and so was shocked to find Blackhills red box 223 Remington 55 FMJ 55 grain ammo showing pressure signs in my AR-15. Slightly flattened primers, ejector plunger smearing on brass, as well as line on brass from extractor seam on bolt face. Other ammo fired showed none of these signs. The cases were all "WCC 09", with the little NATO emblem. I took pics of the cases and asked some others and they pretty much all said "excessive pressure". I guess lesson learned, check any and all rounds fired.

Phil

What do you agree to...

I have had regular factory ammunition (Rem and Win) do the same things, and show the same signs - I have two cases sent to me for evaluation that blew the primers out of the case - Remington factory...

... so exactly WHAT do you agree about??

This used to be such a good site - this stuff is all idiocy - what the hell happened here??