Reforming Brass

[longbow62]

Does anyone here have experience with reforming one cartridge type into another? I am forming 7mm Rem Mag into 6.5 Rem Mag. I bought the Redding Form die for 6.5 Rem Mag. The way I understand it if the reform die does not have a # in it's description it is the only one you need. I did not want to go out and buy new 7mm Mag brass yet as I just wanted to try it out. I have formed two cases no major problems so far.

These are the steps I have gone through. If they are incorrect someone let me know.
1. Lube 7mm mag case body with Imperial sizing wax.
2. Run thru the forming die.
3. Cut off old 7mm neck.
4. Trim to 6.5 Mag trim length.
5. Chamfer case mouth relube case and run thru 6.5 mag full length sizing die.
6. Run thru K&N neck expander.
7. Turn neck. At this point there is one hiccup. I can tell the neck is much tighter on the neck turners case bushing than it normally is. It is the cutter type bushing. Don't know if it's a problem it works fine just tighter than normal.
8. Neck size in neck sizing die.
9. Trim back to 6.5 Rem mag trim length.
10. Test in my rifle with ejector removed. Zero resistance closing bolt.

Visually the only difference between the formed case and a 6.5 mag head stamped case is the shoulder neck junction. I have yet to seat a bullet to see if there is more resistance compared to a prepped piece of 6.5 Rem mag brass. Also the reformed case is about 12 grains heavier (Ouch!), and by my measurements holds 1.6 grains less water than a one of my once fired cases.

Although I do have 6.5 Mag brass right now I was looking to get around availability issues, and 7mm mag brass is cheaper.

 

[dedogs]

the neck is much tighter on the neck turners case bushing than it normally is. It is the cutter type bushing.

Do you mean the turning mandrel on the cutting tool? If so, hopefully you are lubing this part for every case you turn. As you know, when sizing down the sides of the neck get thicker and should have more resistance to expanding (more spring-back?).
I also think you may be sizing your brass more than necessary if you have zero resistance closing with a stripped bolt. dedogs

 

[nmkid]

If you mean the mandrel on the turning tool...I get that sometimes. I just run the case through the expanding mandrel again twice. Run through the mandrel once, turn case 180* run again and that takes the tightness away.

 

[ireload2]

I would suggest that you form the brass to have a little drag when the bolt is closed. This will prevent stretching the case walls due to setting the shoulder back.

You can also measure the diameter of the case necks with a bullet seated and compare to your chamber neck diameter. You may not need to turn the necks at all and with a hunting rifle the accuracy may be fine without turning.

 

[longbow62]

I will try expanding twice as suggested. As far as lack of resistance to closing bolt goes this was after the second adjustment of the FL die. My normal setup of the sizing die caused to much resistance closing the bolt. So the reformed cases need to be resized more so than a standard 6.5 mag case. I may readjust again. This is just testing phase to see what works and what does not. The 12 grain weight difference between the finished reformed brass and the regular 6.5 mag brass has me perplexed on just how far to back off normal loads.

 

[fguffey]

Does anyone here have experience with reforming one cartridge type into another? I am forming 7mm Rem Mag into 6.5 Rem Mag.

Yes, I do, but I distinguish the difference between forming a case and necking up and or down. When going from 7mm Remington Mag to 6.5mm Remington mag you are sizing the neck down meaning the neck gets shorter and the shoulder gets longer and the distance from the shoulder/case body juncture to the case head does not change. A reloader should be able to chamber a minimum length full length sized 6.5mm Remington Mag case in to a 7mm Remington Mag chamber. The forming die is not a die that returns the case to minimum length/full length size.

I believe a reloader should be aware when sizing a case to minimum length or full length size the shell holder has to make it to the bottom of the die meaning when I have a gap between the die and shell holder the case is not full length sized. So I am not timid about adjusting the die to the shell holder, I remove the gap by adjusting the die down to the shell holder and then I increase the presses ability to overcome the cases ability to resist sizing.

In the perfect world of case forming the reloader would use new cases or once fired cases, it is a bad habit to form cases that have been fired several times without annealing them.

Again, you are necking the case down. There are claims the neck gets thicker and or thinner, for the most part my case necks get longer and or shorter when necking up and or down.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

The 12 grain weight difference between the finished reformed brass and the regular 6.5 mag brass has me perplexed on just how far to back off normal loads

I have never had a case to gain and or loose weight when forming unless I had to use a hack saw and file to trim. If you started with a case weight before necking the case down the case will weight the same when finished.

These are the steps I have gone through. If they are incorrect someone let me know.
1. Lube 7mm mag case body with Imperial sizing wax.
2. Run thru the forming die.
3. Cut off old 7mm neck.
4. Trim to 6.5 Mag trim length.
5. Chamfer case mouth relube case and run thru 6.5 mag full length sizing die.
6. Run thru K&N neck expander.
7. Turn neck. At this point there is one hiccup. I can tell the neck is much tighter on the neck turners case bushing than it normally is. It is the cutter type bushing. Don't know if it's a problem it works fine just tighter than normal.
8. Neck size in neck sizing die.
9. Trim back to 6.5 Rem mag trim length.
10. Test in my rifle with ejector removed. Zero resistance closing bolt.

#3, 4, 5 and 7 will reduce the weight of the case, and then there is volume, again, the shoulder increased in length between the two junctures.

F. Guffey

 

[expiper]

uuhhhh,,,,isnt the 6.5 rem mag ~.330" shorter than a 7mm mag,,,,the poster in response #6 must not realize this,,,the OP certainly does when he mentioned cutting off the old case neck after running thru his resize die,,,,lots of people give lots of advice about something they have obviously never did,,,beware of who you let advise you on the internet (some are quacks ),,,,Roger

 

[dedogs]

There are claims the neck gets thicker and or thinner

This is not a claim, it is a fact. With all the wonderful tools you claim to own it would surprise me if you don't own a tubing mic. dedogs

 

[dedogs]

Also the reformed case is about 12 grains heavier (Ouch!),

Do you have a way of sectioning both cases after which you could measure the differences between the two? dedogs

 

[fguffey]

Roger

Roger, forgive, I screwed that one up. My favorite forming die is the 350 Remington die. No excuse, I did not have any help on this one, again I did it all by myself. So when forming the case he will be shortening the case close to .336" from the shoulder to the case head.

And then there is always the question about moving the shoulder, I do not know how to be any more honest than to say I have trouble moving the shoulder because on my cases the shoulder does not move.

Thank you.

F. Guffey

 

[expiper]

Roger, forgive, I screwed that one up. My favorite forming die is the 350 Remington die. No excuse, I did not have any help on this one, again I did it all by myself. So when forming the case he will be shortening the case close to .336".

Thank you.

F. Guffey

hey we all make mistakes,,,,I have to learn from others because I dont have enuff time to make them all myself,,,hahahah,,,,have a great day,,,Roger

 

[longbow62]

The only way I have of sectioning a case would be a dremel tool. Thanks I may try that. I would think the brass is thicker on the formed case by quite a bit, hence the 12 grain difference in weight between them.

This experiment in forming is strictly for an alternative to 6.5 mag brass being difficult to find at times. It will not be the main brass I shoot right now. Norma does make 7mm mag brass and it is higher quality than Remington so I have heard. My thoughts were also that I might be able to come up with a source for higher quality brass than the current Remington brass I am shooting now.

 

[longbow62]

I might also add this is a LR rifle. Not a hunting rifle. Medium Palma 28" barrel on a long action Remington purpose built for seating long 140gr. and heavier bullets out to between 3.00-3.15".

 

[dedogs]

This experiment in forming is strictly for an alternative to 6.5 mag brass being difficult to find at times

I understand. Is the 7 mag brass also Remington? dedogs

 

[expiper]

I might also add this is a LR rifle. Not a hunting rifle. Medium Palma 28" barrel on a long action Remington purpose built for seating long 140gr. and heavier bullets out to between 3.00-3.15".

OP,,,,I know you can hear anything on the internet,,,but IMHO Winchest brass is better than Rem.,,,I would get a bag of them and try a few(either 7mm mag or .264 mag if you can find them) ,,,I like to take one ctg and load it several times to see how a batch of brass will do,,,If they dont work out you can always sell them ,,and since your action has a mag bolt face why not consider using .270/7mm WSM necked down to 6.5 mm???!!!,,,,Roger

 

[dedogs]

Medium Palma 28" barrel on a long action Remington purpose built for seating long 140gr. and heavier bullets out to between 3.00-3.15".

This

Not a hunting rifle. Medium Palma 28" barrel on a long action Remington purpose built for seating long 140gr. and heavier bullets out to between 3.00-3.15".

This seems like a good plan. You should be able to get at least 2850fps withthis set-up. dedogs

 

[ireload2]

Your normal set up would have worked fine if you size the brass very slowly and let the ram dwell about 4 seconds at the top of the stroke.
Then retract the case about 1/2" rotate 120 degrees and size slowly again with the dwell, retract, rotate again and size with the dwell again.
This will insure your brass has enough time to creep to the final dimensions of the die without over sizing it.
You really need a Hornady case gage or similar to see the results as the shoulder moves toward the case head the last few thousandths.

I will try expanding twice as suggested. As far as lack of resistance to closing bolt goes this was after the second adjustment of the FL die. My normal setup of the sizing die caused to much resistance closing the bolt. So the reformed cases need to be resized more so than a standard 6.5 mag case. I may readjust again. This is just testing phase to see what works and what does not. The 12 grain weight difference between the finished reformed brass and the regular 6.5 mag brass has me perplexed on just how far to back off normal loads.

 

[longbow62]

I have done over 3100fps. with IMR 7828ssc no pressure signs 140 Amax. I am sure it can go even faster. Barrel life will probably be short what is considered short, but I don't shoot it weekly. Why 6.5 Remington Mag over others. Good question!
1. I just have always been interested in the cartridge. Thought it looked neat. It was ahead of it's time I think. It was stuck in rifles with short actions and barrels where it could not reach it's full potential.
2. 6.5 Rem mag feeds great thru Accuracy International .300 Win Mag magazines. I wanted a chassis that could run mags. So that was a plus right off the bat 6.5 mag would feed thru mags in a chassis system.
3. There is no necking up or down if you have the brass. Brass is hard to find so you have to hit certain places regularly to catch in stock before it sells out. I have 300 pieces right now.

I may do a 6.5 SAUM when this barrel is shot out. Depends on how long it last and future availability of 6.5 Rem mag brass.

 

[longbow62]

ireload2 I will definitely try your suggestion of rotating the case. I never thought of that while resizing although I do rotate case as I seat bullets. I don't have a case gauge. Guess that would be a wise purchase. Thanks.