Redding S bushing die and expander ball

[waterfwlr]

I've read a few times of people removing the expander ball from their dies because of potential runout issues. I'm all about taking something out of the equation that could cause problems. How do I remove the expander without the decaping pin?

 

[bigedp51]

My bushing dies do not have expander buttons and if you remove the expander button on a standard full length die the necks will be too tight.

There are a few tricks use to center the expander button in the die that work well, but runout has many causes.

 

[ShootDots]

All you do is unscrew the (for lack of better terminology) the "clamping" screw on the stem at the "pin-holder" and remove the expander assembly. There are many things to look at though. 1.) of you size more than 2K neck tension you should use an expander ball... Redding has a floating carbide expander ball that I use all the time. It "centers itself" on the withdraw of the case. This does NOT eliminate run out, however, it keeps it to a negligible minimum. 2.) If you do not use an expander ball, you will need to anneal almost every time (some people do anyhow).. I use it so I can "feel" if the case is "dragging over" the expander>>>if it is, that is my cue to anneal. Once I anneal a case (I have already sized it) and I KNOW I have "good spring-back", I use a mandrel to "straighten out" any deformities from the annealing process and the "spring-back" gives me right at 1.5K neck tension.. The mandrel is the "straightest" way to eliminate, if that is possible, any run out. T-Rust me, the "debate" about whether or not to use an expander ball will rage for as long as there is reloading. "RULE OF THUMB">> If you size with less than 2K neck tension, you REALLY do not need an expander ball>>>more than 2K you need one... So as Fox News would say: "I will report and you decide"!! LOL!!

 

[CatShooter]

I've read a few times of people removing the expander ball from their dies because of potential runout issues. I'm all about taking something out of the equation that could cause problems. How do I remove the expander without the decaping pin?

Most Redding type "S" bushing dies have an extra pin retainer (w/o expander) in the box - if you didn't get one, call Redding and ask for one.

I remove ALL of the expanders in my ALL of my sizing dies - even the standard ones - then I use a Lyman "M" die if needed.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Just to add to Catshooter's post. The Redding pin retainers that I have are black plastic grommets. They came in the box. I have no clue where the expander balls are; my best guess is Near Earth Orbit.

 

[Lapua40X]

... if you remove the expander button on a standard full length die the necks will be too tight.

That is certainly true. To overcome that problem I simply use a Wilson expander die. It expands the necks to proper size and, unlike a lot of expander ball/button components in full length resizing dies, leaves the necks straight as an arrow

 

[wapiti25]

When using the expander I use Imperial Dry Neck Lube and that greatly reduces "pulling" on the neck and reduces the expander from causing run-out.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Wow ShootDots, that's one way to make a simple process complicated!

You should anneal before resizing, not afterwards.
Use correct bushing and no expander mandrel or button needed.

 

[waterfwlr]

Thanks to all that replied.

I run1-2k neck tension. I used the km expander mandrel as I just turned the necks so I thought this would be a good time to try removing the expander.

Cat shooter, I did find the extra pin retainer and put it in. Works great.

Thanks again, you guys are very knowledgable and helpful.

 

[CatShooter]

Wow ShootDots, that's one way to make a simple process complicated!

You should anneal before resizing, not afterwards.
Use correct bushing and no expander mandrel or button needed.

What Eric said...

Waterfwlr... my pleasure. Don't let what shotadot said get you out of joint - life (and bushing dies) are not that difficult.

 

[ShootDots]

Erik, there is a reason / method to my "madness"... I could go into it but, would it make any difference anyhow? I have my reasons and they work very well for me... If it is too complicated, don't do what I do... I was just telling the OP what I do>>>>not WHY I do it>>although the reason is in there...

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Because you have the time to do all that?

 

[ShootDots]

No Denys... I don't anneal every time. It is my opinion that it is unnecessary. So I size the brass and IF I feel the necks dragging over the expander ball, I know it is time to anneal. If not, I do not anneal. My 6.5 x 47 brass USUALLY takes 3 firings before I "feel" that expander ball "pulling" at the brass' neck. My 6BR (now my 6 Dasher) would take 7-8 times before it needed annealing. My 6.5 x 284 has been about every other time.. In all these "events" I won't know IF I need annealing unless and until I size the brass and run it over the expander ball.. Most of the time you can't even feel it UNTIL the brass starts to harden up to the point where you can feel it dragging.. Since I don't want to anneal every time and I don't have a crystal ball, I use the F/L sizer to "tell" me when it is time to anneal.. Then, after annealing, all I have to do is run them into a mandrel and they are PERFECT... That "extra step" takes all of about 15 minutes for 100 pieces of annealed brass.. Complicated? No... An additional 15 minutes, YES..

 

[mikecr]

I simply use a Wilson expander die.

Never heard of it. It's not in their catalog. Did you mean Sinclair expander?

Bullets make terrible expanders, so necks should always be pre-expanded before seating.
A Sinclair mandrel does work better than buttons.

 

[tenring]

I simply use a Wilson expander die.

Bullets make terrible expanders, so necks should always be pre-expanded before seating.

If necks are expanded before seating and not sized down again, you will have zero neck tension. Turned necks need only sizing (no expanding) after they are fire formed.

 

[CatShooter]

I simply use a Wilson expander die.

Bullets make terrible expanders, so necks should always be pre-expanded before seating.

If necks are expanded before seating and not sized down again, you will have zero neck tension.

Nope... expanders do not expand all the way up to bullet size.

 

[M-61]

From Catshooter :"Nope... expanders do not expand all the way up to bullet size."

And if they did there would be zero neck tension (not counting spring back)...is that correct or am I looking at this the wrong way?

 

[CatShooter]

From Catshooter :"Nope... expanders do not expand all the way up to bullet size."

And if they did there would be zero neck tension (not counting spring back)...is that correct or am I looking at this the wrong way?

The expander (whether built in the die, or a separate tool) brings the neck up to a few thou below bullet size.

But, if you are using a bushing die, why the hell do you need an expander - if you want a neck to be 3 thou smaller than the bullet, then pick a bushing than sizes the neck to 3 thou smaller than the bullet, and get on with your life, and stop getting involved with all this junk

This is not brain surgery...

 

[Lapua40X]

I simply use a Wilson expander die.

Never heard of it. It's not in their catalog. Did you mean Sinclair expander?

Bullets make terrible expanders, so necks should always be pre-expanded before seating.
A Sinclair mandrel does work better than buttons.

Yeah, it's sold by Sinclair but I'm told it's made by Wilson so I just get stuck on that label. Probably because I have so much respect for Wilson products. :

 

[Area Man]

But, if you are using a bushing die, why the hell do you need an expander - if you want a neck to be 3 thou smaller than the bullet, then pick a bushing than sizes the neck to 3 thou smaller than the bullet, and get on with your life, and stop getting involved with all this junk

That's what I thought. That's the point of a bushing neck die.