Redding Micrometer Sizing Die issues

[Bob3700]

Folks, I recently purchased a LR rifle package from a gentleman who could not shoot it anymore. It is a 6.5X284 and came with dies and brass.

The dies are the Redding competition three die set that have micrometer tops on both the sizing and seating die.

The problem is with the sizing die. The body die I assume is to size the main dimensions of the case body and push the shoulder back. The micrometer topped sizing die it would appear is just to neck size using bushings. The micrometer top appears you allow you to adjust the amount of neck you size.

The problem is the body die. With the shell holder bottoming against the die, the shoulder is only pushed back .001". That is the max I can adjust it.

Now before you start on a diatribe about pushing the shoulder back too much, I want you to know that I usually shoot for .0015" to .002" of setback on these LR cartridges. So the die is not far off but there is no leeway for the brass hardening, things like that.

So now the question is what do I do. Do I really want to invest money in a set of the Redding shell holders that allow you to compensate for this exact situation pushing the shoulder back. Do I want to chuck the die up in my lathe and use a carbide tool to trim a couple of thou off the bottom of the die (probably the most expedient) . Or, do I just contact Redding and see if they will trim the die a few thou. and fix it that way.

I don't understand why they would make the dies set with three dies. You can adjust the amount your s die sizes the neck just by placing a o-ring under the top of the die and set the dimension that the neck bushing moves.

Oh well, the trials and tribulations of a different rifle and set-up.

Bob

 

[spclark]

Heck, if you have access to a lathe, why not just cut a couple thou off a shell holder to get the clearance you want?

(I won't comment on the dies themselves, not having any Redding dies myself that behave this way.)

Having them do the work will cost you I'm sure, if only for the shipping.

 

[CatShooter]

The Redding Comp shell holders won't help you... they will make effectively make the die "longer" not "shorter".

Don't cut the shell holder, cut 3 or 4 thou from the bottom of the chamber.

But if the die sizes the cases enough to fit the rifle chamber, why bother??

Meow

 

[Bob3700]

Well, the reason to shave a few thou off the bottom of the die is that as the brass hardens, you have to bump the shoulder a bit harder to get that .0015" or .002" setback.

Right now with new brass all the die will bump is about .0015".

So I guess the lathe is going to get warmed up.

Bob

 

[anyrange]

Bob,
Before you start cutting metal off your body die or sheelholder, make sure you have the body die screwed down far enough. Not just touching but a little farther than just touching. Set it for a very very hard over cam and try a couple of cases a see what you get.

Larry

 

[fdshuster]

Along with the other suggestions, I would also add: remove about .010" from the top of the shellholder. That has been a standard fix for me when I have the same problem. Not having a lathe, a friend of mine uses his surface grinder, and removing .010" or even .020" has no effect on the use of the shellholder. Besides that, they are very cheap to replace. Shellholders can vary a lot in thickness, even from the same manufacturer, you may have one a little thicker than "standard". I would remove metal from the shellholder before I would mess with the sizer die body. Same end results.

 

[spclark]

... removing .010" or even .020" has no effect on the use of the shellholder. Besides that, they are very cheap to replace.

My point exactly.

You also might want to explore the potential for more uniform shoulder bump that annealed cases provides. I was having the same problem due to inconsistent brass work hardening, not a too-long sizing die. Annealing case shoulders & necks resolved that & have led to more uniform neck tension as a side benefit also.

 

[KevinThomas]

Hey Bob,

Gotta go with Frank and spclark on this one. Basic rule of fittting two parts when one costs a few bucks and the other close to a hundred; do the whittling on the cheaper part! It should fix the problem just fine, and your not risking the high dollar part. Makes sense, no?

LCSA team practice over in Bucksnort on Sunday. You free for the day?

 

[wapiti25]

Redding makes very good dies. One thing that I want to comment is the rifle chamber may be short and the die would bump more in a different rifle. My last build has an issue that I caused by using a min sized chamber reamer. The standard full length sizing die does not size the base of the case small enough on brass fired in other rifles with oversize factory chambers. It works great on new brass. I have always hated the bulge on brass fired in factory oversized chambers or undersize brass. Alot of the US brass is small at the base compared to drawings. I may buy the Small Base sizing die so I can shoot pick-up brass or just shoot new brass for this rifle as I have been doing. I think I would trim a shell holder and consider anealing the brass for consistancy, it may shoot better at long range. Good luck

 

[expiper]

Give the shell holder a "shave".....a cupla thou wont hurt it (even .020") and dedicate it to that particular die/rifle combo.....sounds like the gunsmith tried to give you a "tighter" than normal chamber to show off his skills and prooved his lack of fit/headspace etc knowledge.....Roger

 

[fdshuster]

As further verification of what wapiti25 said, a difference of as little .002" in case head diameter can prevent a case used in a previous chamber to be used in another. I had that experience several years ago when I had a new chamber cut for an existing cartridge that I had been loading for years. There was a supply of brass from the older chambering that was very high quality ( a really good lot of Winchester with only 2 and 3 loadings), and I tried to use it in the new chamber. It could not be chambered, no matter what I did, including using a small base die. My operating rule now is: new chamber = new brass.

 

[spclark]

Even with new brass & a newly chambered barrel, small base dies do come in handy for some cartridges as you suggest.

"Palma" chambers are a good example. There's a fairly wide choice of reamer profiles for Palma chambers and a few are rather on the tight side at the breech. Small base 308 dies help keep brass working where standard FL dies might cause problems with cases not chambering after a firing or two.

It's also not unheard of for a new reamer, being used for the first time, might cut a chamber that's a tad tighter than it will after it's been used more.

 

[lynn]

Why fire up a lathe?
Tape a piece of 80 grit sandpaper onto a flat hard surface and run the shellholder in a figure "8" pattern on it for several seconds.
Always worked for myself.
Lynn

 

[Bob3700]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I will try the shell holder first as I did switch those in order to get the shoulder to bump that .0015".

The brass is only once fired so I don't think that annealing will buy me a whole lot just yet.

Bob

 

[Fat Albert]

anyrange: can you please explain how you can get the case deeper into the die by caming over apposed to it hard againts the sheel holder? For the ram to cam-over the die must be backed out away from the shell holder.

 

[anyrange]

Albert,
Even big presses like my Ultramag will flex some under the loads required to resize the brass. So if you set up the die so it just touches the shellholder under no load it will have a little larger gap under load. Using new soft brass the gap under load will be less than use hard brass which takes more force to resize. However, if you run the ram all the way up and then screw the die down very very very hard on the shellholder while the ram is at top of its stroke or top dead center with more force than it even takes to resize hard brass than the die will always be touching at the top of the stroke. This extra little force (preload or overcaming) will allow for any press flex and linkage slop so the brass shoulder will be set back the same size no matter how hard or soft it is to start with. I use a pair of channel locks to tighten the my sizing dies down hard up the ram while at top of the stroke. Or you can just keep screwing the die down while running the ram up and down until you get by feel force on the shellholder. So no the over camming does not get the case any deeper into the die it just helps prevent it from sticking out more on the bottom of the die.

 

[CatShooter]

anyrange: can you please explain how you can get the case deeper into the die by caming over apposed to it hard againts the sheel holder? For the ram to cam-over the die must be backed out away from the shell holder.

It's the other way...

If a shell holder just touches the shell holder, the press can spring up under load, and the case can wind up with a longer shoulder to head length... but the bad part about it is that the distance is not the same on each case, cuz the resistance with each case is not the same.

When the press "cam's over" that means that the shell holder is screwed IN deeper than the top of the shell holder (at the top of the stroke)... so when the handle completes the stroke, the press is under a lot of pressure, and when it springs, the shell holder still stays in contact with the bottom of the die, so each case is the same.

Meow

 

[expiper]

To those who dont understand the necessity for "cam over" ..or screwing the die down beyond touching....just size a case and with the ram at top dead center....lean over and look at the "air gap" between the shell holder and bottom of the die!!!! you can usually stik .005" or so feeler guage in there..!!!!!.....and OBTW,,if the original poster (OP-wink) has a die with a micrometer top ..it is not meant to size the case body,,,just the neck ,,,,please correct me if im wrong...I cant afford those fancy dies with all the bells and whistles....Roger