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Redding Competition Dies

Bob3700

I have a 3 die competition set for my rifle. It has a body die and a neck sizing / recapping die.
It seems the body die sizes the body and pushes the shoulder back. The neck die uses a sleeve to hold the case while the bushing sizes the neck n decaps. The neck die has a micrometer adjustment so u can Set how much of the neck length u want to size.
I have always set my brass up to size the complete length of the neck. Is there any real advantage to partly sizing the necks?
If the neck is turned/ reamed straight and u achieve correct neck tension, why do I want to partially size the neck length?
Just trying to learn something here.
 
I have the Competition neck sizing die. I believe one cannot actually size the entire neck. Please call Redding and my bet is that they will confirm this.
 
Bob3700 said:
I have a 3 die competition set for my rifle. It has a body die and a neck sizing / recapping die.
It seems the body die sizes the body and pushes the shoulder back. The neck die uses a sleeve to hold the case while the bushing sizes the neck n decaps. The neck die has a micrometer adjustment so u can Set how much of the neck length u want to size.
I have always set my brass up to size the complete length of the neck. Is there any real advantage to partly sizing the necks?
If the neck is turned/ reamed straight and u achieve correct neck tension, why do I want to partially size the neck length?
Just trying to learn something here.
Click to expand...

Bob, - as was stated it help to center the cartridge in the chamber.
Also a couple of other advantageous aspects are: - It allows an even greater "range" in which to set-up desired neck tension.
Also, when we think of exactly how a bullet measures out on the bearing surface, we find a pressure ring that usually ranges from 0.0003 to 0.0005 over the majority of the bullets bearing surface. - It takes a decent micrometer to measure it and it will normally be located at the "heel" on a flat-base bullet and at the bottom of the body of the bearing surface right prior to where it begins transition to the boat-tail on a boat-tail type bullet. - By Not sizing the entire length of the neck, we allow the pressure ring a spot to sit at where it's not part of the neck-tension equation, thereby hopefully gaining uniformity of neck tension on the majority of the bearing surface. - Another benefit is those concerns about the "dreaded-doughnut" are now negated as this area isn't in contact with our bullet to disrupt uniformity of neck tension.
- I normally size from 50 to 66% of the neck on a neck-turned case in an accuracy rifle and try to control neck tension by the amount of neck that gets sized along with selection of bushing.

Regards, - Ron -
 
Great analysis Ron! With all your explanation in play, I've found I actually get better runout on a finished cartridge when all else Ron has done which also makes for a better/more consistent overall load in terms of prepping.

Alex
 
Ron,
Please clarify for me several issues.

First- I have measured the pressure ring on a flat based bullet but never measured one on a boat tail bullet.

Second- if u are uniforming your necks by outside turning isnt the neck thickness uniform and therefore ur neck tension is also uniform?

Third- My "S" die will size 95-98% of the neck and u can see it on the case neck.

My approach to uniforming necks and controlling neck tension is to utilize a full length sizing die that also allows in-line inside neck reaming. This tall topped die allows the reamer to uniform the inside of the neck. This ensures that the case is straight and the neck thickness is uniformed down the centerline of the case.
If u outside neck turn, the neck may be of uniform thickness but be off center from the centerline of the case. It doesnt help loaded round runout on longer cases.
Also, soft seating ur bullet long helps center the bullet into the lands and start straight. I am not sure that partial sizing the necks has any advantage over my present methods.

Bob
 
Bob3700 said:
Ron,
Please clarify for me several issues.

First- I have measured the pressure ring on a flat based bullet but never measured one on a boat tail bullet.

Second- if u are uniforming your necks by outside turning isnt the neck thickness uniform and therefore ur neck tension is also uniform?

Third- My "S" die will size 95-98% of the neck and u can see it on the case neck.

My approach to uniforming necks and controlling neck tension is to utilize a full length sizing die that also allows in-line inside neck reaming. This tall topped die allows the reamer to uniform the inside of the neck. This ensures that the case is straight and the neck thickness is uniformed down the centerline of the case.
If u outside neck turn, the neck may be of uniform thickness but be off center from the centerline of the case. It doesnt help loaded round runout on longer cases.
Also, soft seating ur bullet long helps center the bullet into the lands and start straight. I am not sure that partial sizing the necks has any advantage over my present methods.

Bob
Click to expand...

Bob,

As I stated, "usually" on a boat tail bullet at the bottom of the body of the bearing surface right prior to where it begins transition to the boat-tail. - Sometimes it's tricky to measure but it is there at least on the match bullets that I'm using.

Yes, I am outside neck turning to obtain neck uniformity from the mouth of the case all the way back to the neck-shoulder junction. - Prior to beginning neck turning I will run an expander mandrel through the case to get it to where it has a proper / correct fit to the turning mandrel on the neck-turning hand-held lathe. - There may also be instances to where one may want to Full-Length Size the case (Not bumping the shoulder) to get the necks down to a diameter prior to using an expander mandrel if there was a situation where the brass was not uniform at the actual neck. This pushes the neck-wall variation to the Outer part of the brass. - Usually I'm just using an expander mandrel and I can "feel" how the mandrel is passing through the case neck. - I try to use good brass (Lapua or another top quality brand).

Yes agree - Some Redding "S" type dies will size more of the neck than others when the bushing depth adjustment is screwed all the way down. - I've noticed that not all of them are equal in sizing when screwed all the way down & also verified it by measuring.

"This tall topped die allows the reamer to uniform the inside of the neck. This ensures that the case is straight and the neck thickness is uniformed down the centerline of the case." - Here's where I am in disagreement. And it has manifested itself when I've seen it done. - The inside neck reamer is going to follow the path of least resistance down the opening. - And when you Full-Length sized that case you pushed any imperfections of tolerance of brass thickness to the inside of the case mouth. - Now the case mouth inside has the variations of neck-wall thickness on the inside and your turning a reamer into it. You have nothing to control the path that the reamer takes, so it will take the path of least resistance. - I saw it several times & actually measured it after inside neck reaming was done AT the vendor who was providing the brass to Barrett Arms in 416 Barrett caliber in the early days when they were using a 6 die set to form & ream the brass taking 50 BMG down to 416 Barrett. (Things have changed @ Barrett as now RUAG is making their brass).
If u outside neck turn, the neck may be of uniform thickness but be off center from the centerline of the case.- Agree, but it will be centered up after it has been fire-formed in the rifle chamber. - After which I usually do a 0.0003 "skim pass" on it - Now its straight with the centerline and the neck is uniform.
Also, soft seating ur bullet long helps center the bullet into the lands and start straight. I am not sure that partial sizing the necks has any advantage over my present methods.- Agree on seating into the lands to start straight. - I'm not sure either that partial sizing for you has any advantage, But again, I explained that By Not sizing the entire length of the neck, we allow the pressure ring a spot to sit at where it's not part of the neck-tension equation, thereby hopefully gaining uniformity of neck tension on the majority of the bearing surface. - Another benefit is those concerns about the "dreaded-doughnut" are now negated as this area isn't in contact with our bullet to disrupt uniformity of neck tension.
- I'm only trying to explain the logic of what I do and why, Not to force you to do anything. - And actual real-world testing should be the determining factor and the results on paper. - I can show you a photo of a 0.087 five shot group at 100 yards from a 300 WSM or a 20 shot group at 200 yards that measures in the 0.6 range with a 28 Nosler as a result of the method that I've explained.
At the end of the day, its up to you if you want to try it or if your satisfied with the results your getting.

All The Best - Ron -
 
Last edited:
Ron,
Agree that u employ the techniques that
work for u.

One last thought, u must start with brass that has even material distribution just above the web. If the case has a thin and thick side, this will result in a banana shaped case. No amount of neck turning or fireforming will remove this curve from the case and magnifies bullet run out.
I shoot MR and LR prone/ sling and am always looking on how to improve my scores.
Thanks for ur thoughts.

Bob
 
Thank You Bob, - What I try to do is what I've been taught by both short & long range Benchrest shooters in effort to try to create the most accurate ammo. - A lot of it may be viewed as a lot of work for very small gains by some reloaders and shooters. - With the level of todays present shooters and the records that have been established the extra things done along with improving shooting skills are the path that I see to improving accuracy and hopefully being competitive.

All The Best - Ron -
 
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