Redding Comp. Shell Holders

[joshb]

Joshb
I knew you were joking around but in reading your last post , I realized I was wrong , using the standard shellholder you still having resistance on your cases . Did you try what Metal God suggested using the feeler gauge may give you that added push needed . As long as you trimmed the base of the die fluch that would get you there too . Is this the original barrel or a rebarrel . You can check with a pair of Go and No Go gages and test for chamber length.

Thanks for the thoughts. I have 8-10 shell holders for that sized cartridge that I’ve collected over the years. Shaving one down seemed a better idea than altering my Whidden bushing die. Adding another step in the process (pushing a feeler gage under every piece of brass) seemed more time consuming than I liked.
The barrel is a custom Bartlien. Like I said, new brass fits fine. I could send it off to get the chamber cut deeper to work better with my dies. Grinding a little off a shell holder seemed the easiest way to solve the issue. I painted it red so I know which one it is and I keep it in the die box with notes.

 

[cw308]

I agree it's the easiest fix , glad it worked out . Sorry for the confusion .

 

[Metal God]

That’s a good looking feeler gauge that in my experience will be destroyed under the pressure of sizing

Yes depending on your definition of destroyed . If you mean bent and tweeked to where you can’t use it for anything else ? Yes but if you only use it for lefting cases they last quite awhile . You need to remove the decapppng pin though .

I used them that way for a couple years to adjust for press flex when a case was more difficult to size then the rest . Id throw a shim under it to give it the extra it needed rather the adjust the die for just a few cases in a large lot .

At the time I was reluctant to try the comp shellholders and stubbornly kept using the shims . Once went to the comp shell holders I couldn’t believe how much better they work , keeping in mind I did not need my cases sized shorter then a standard shell holder would allow .

 

[JFrank]

Yeah
That’s the definition I was thinking about

 

[RGRobinett]

The die contacts the "TOP" of the shell holder and the bottom of the shell holder has no effect on the amount of bump. It can effect the amount of cam over force but it will not push the case further into the die.

The purpose of the Redding competition shell holders is to change and reduce the amount of shoulder bump without touching the die.

If a standard shell holder will not give you enough shoulder bump then just lap the top of the shell holder on some fine wet and dry sandpaper a little at a time until you have the desired shoulder bump.

You can also try pausing at the top of the ram stroke for a few seconds, this will reduce the amount of brass spring back after sizing.

This (bold, above) is somewhat incorrect - true only if one uses a single shell-holder: the OP was questioning Redding Competition shell-holders producing undesirable results. In the case of these shell-holders, any variation in the height of the shell-holders can and does produce negative results. In order to establish consistent die to shell-holder contact, the distance between the top face of the ram, and the top of the shell-holder dictates that the thickness of the shell-holders, above the ram, must be uniform - the industry standard is .250" +/- a thou or so - see pic. The Redding, and most other shell-holders hold the tolerances for this attribute very close.

In my post, above, look at the lower pic: that is the web (varying THAT width is similar to the feeler gauge trick) - for that holder, .1200", or, 0.005" less shoulder set-back than standard/maximum for a SAAMI minimum spec. chamber, which would measure .125". Once the ram and die are in contact, the shell holders should be interchangeable - and, if there is NO GAP between the ram face, and shell-holder rim face, they are fully interchangeable. The thickness of the "web" is what determines the amount of shoulder set-back: the Redding COMPETITION shell-holders work almost perfectly - IF the ram shell-holder slot is NOT so narrow as to hold/create a gap between the proper contact surfaces. There MUST be four surfaces, in contact: shell-holder bottom face to ram face; bottom/mouth of die to top face of shell-holder. Any other contact points are undesirable.

If there is a GAP between the bottom of the shell-holder rim and the ram face, caused by the bottom of the shell-holder contacting the bottom of the holder slot, any variation in the holder height and the top face of the holder, will result in that much variation in sizing. The very bottom of the shell-holder contacting the bottom of the shell-holder slot, in the ram, is not uncommon, and is the primary reason that changing shell-holders results in vexing results. Assuring that there is NO gap is sound practice.

If, with a static die adjustment, you cannot change shell-holders and experience/feel the same "crush", something is, "out of whack", but likely easily correctable! RG

P.S. following this post, I measured 25 shell-holders, of various makes & case-head diameters: the OVER-ALL height ranged from .473" to .501! The rim faces, to top faces ranged from .247" to .252" - that was somewhat surprising - I expected .250 +/- maybe .0015, or, a range of about 0.003". All of my Redding Comp. sets measure between .250" and .251". The web dimensions, supposedly in .002" increments/steps, beginning at .125", are mostly close, but sometimes, 0.001" off.

 

[Uncle Ed]

View attachment 1120024

This (bold, above) is somewhat incorrect - true only if one uses a single shell-holder: the OP was questioning Redding Competition shell-holders producing undesirable results. In the case of these shell-holders, any variation in the height of the shell-holders can and does produce negative results.

The only measurement that matters for the amount of shoulder bump is dimension "X" below. The total height as you measured means nothing in relation to shoulder bump. Even your taller shell holder will not effect the amount of shoulder bump. Once the die makes hard contact with the "TOP" of the shell holder the case can not be pushed further into the die.

I have two sets of Redding competition shell holders, and in the press ram the shell holder snaps into position and does not rest on the very bottom of the shell holder. Meaning the total height measurement means nothing, I have over .012 slop and up and down movement of the shell holder when it is snapped into position. And again the very bottom of the shell holders never contacts the bottom of the slot in the ram they snap into.

Below the press ram has up and down slop in the slot the shell holder snaps into. And the shell holder rests on the top of the ram and not the bottom of the slot the shell holder snaps into.

 

[Martin52]

.....Once the die makes hard contact with the "TOP" of the shell holder the case can not be pushed further into the die.

I have a 0.020 gap between the top of the shell holder and the bottom of the die to get the correct shoulder bump.

The cases still chamber OK....but always wondered about the base of the case not getting sized just above the extractor groove.

 

[cw308]

The deck height determines the shoulder bump , the base of the case sitting on the shellholder deck being forced up into the positioned die by the ram determines how long or short the case is sized . The slop in the Shell holder makes it possible to easily remove the case , slop is good in this situation by allowing the case to self center in the die. It's not complicated .

 

[Uncle Ed]

I have a 0.020 gap between the top of the shell holder and the bottom of the die to get the correct shoulder bump.

The cases still chamber OK....but always wondered about the base of the case not getting sized just above the extractor groove.

Some die manufactures like Whidden have "shorter dies" and warn you to "NOT" adjust the die to contact the shell holder.

Question: How do I adjust my Whidden Gunworks Full Length Resizing Die so that it is sizing my brass properly?
Answer: With the Whidden Gunworks resizing die it is not necessary for the die to touch the shell holder as in the case with most dies. Begin adjustment by placing the die in the press with the die threads setting fully extended. Next place a piece of your brass in the proper shell holder of the reloader and lower or raise the brass until the loading press is in a fully “cammed-over” position. Begin adjusting the die so that the contact surface of the die makes contact with the brass. Raise the handle of the press and adjust the die using small adjustments each time the brass is inserted into the die. Continue adjusting until the desired sizing is achieved. The die should be just above the base of the brass once the brass is sized properly.

WARNING Failure to adhere with below warning could result in damaged and unsafe brass!

The Whidden Gunworks Sizer Die is engineered with a shorter overall length (OAL) compared to other manufactures of sizer dies. This means you can set the shoulder back further if desired based on your specific application. This die is not intended to be used while bottomed out or screwed flush with the shell plate. Doing so will result in the shoulder being set back too far, possibly rendering the casing unusable. During initial setup screw the die flush with the shell plate then back off 1-1 ½ turns, NOTE: Each full turn of the Sizer is approx. .071” so it does not have to be turned very far to make a noticeable adjustment. Instructions are included with each die set and can also be found at www.whiddengunworks.com-reloading-dies- instructions.

 

[LVLAaron]

The only measurement that matters for the amount of shoulder bump is dimension "X" below.

And that's the dimension that varies on the redding comp shell holders.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

And that's the dimension that varies on the redding comp shell holders.

But theyre longer which means less bump each step. Not much call for less bump if your die hits a regular shellholder and doesnt bump enough

 

[JFrank]

I have a 0.020 gap between the top of the shell holder and the bottom of the die to get the correct shoulder bump.

The cases still chamber OK....but always wondered about the base of the case not getting sized just above the extractor groove.

.020 is considerably more than I have.

 

[Sandstorm]

With my 6.5x47 Im in the same boat as joshb...I can barely set the shoulder back enough to chamber
without resistance in the bolt. Ill check with Whidden next.

 

[philip brousseau]

I may be totally off base here but do the cases you are trying to set the shoulder back on chamber without resistance after firing without sizing? my thought is that maybe the shoulders are not pushed as far foreward as they can be with a single firing. not fully fire formed and not reaching the shoulder of the sizing die.

 

[gilream]

First off,I have never had these holders work for me as advertised. I am trying to set the shoulder on 6BR Lapua brass. The base to shoulder is 1.139", I need to kick it back .0015". I started out with a standard Redding shell holder and got the 1.139 measurement. I then tried the comp holders, .010" all the way to the .002" holder and could not get any change from the 1.139 measurement. What am I doing wrong? I get cam over, I am not new to hand loading, and normally set the shoulder buy raising or lowering the die with a standard shell holder, sometimes I need to size and not get cam over with no problems adjusting the shoulder to what I need.

In my experience the Comp Shell Holders are a total waste of time and money. Not slamming Redding here...they make great products and in particular their dies. I found the CS Holders to be inconsistent. Just adjust the die until you get the amount of setback you need, lock it down and be done with it. Just my opinion.

 

[Uncle Ed]

I like the Redding competition shell holders because my 1973 Rockchucker press has a little slop in the linkage.

I set the die to make hard contact with the shell holder with press cam over and this takes all the slop out of the press. And this makes the shoulder bump/location more constant. Meaning if there was a air gap between the die and shell holder I would get more variations in shoulder location after sizing.

I also have a set of Skip Shims but the die must be removed for every shim adjustment. And with the Redding competition shell holders all you need to do is change shell holders and never touch the die.

Below how to setup your die using the Redding competition shell holders

 

[Ccrider]

The comp shell holders work fine for me once I figured out how to use them properly. Whidden’s process set out above sums it up.

 

[swadiver]

http://www.pmatool.com/pma-micro-die-adjuster-w-thumb-screw-upgrade/

 

[JFrank]

Assuming your Die is capable of sizing, these are cool but won’t cure Dies that are too long or already making hard contact with the shell holder.
J

 

[joshb]

View attachment 1120382 Assuming your Die is capable of sizing, these are cool but won’t cure Dies that are too long or already making hard contact with the shell holder.
J

Yup! Handy little tool!