Recommendation for 223 twist rate

[22vartarg]

I working up a build for a 223 Remington bolt action for mainly target work and maybe varmint use out to 400-500 yards or closer. This will be for the wife and she is not afraid of a heavy rifle. Thinking of using a Bighorn Origin action with a 26” Shilen or Criterion barrel. Main question is twist. For 52-53 grain I know they wii work with a slower twist (14), but the max weight bullet I’m thinking of using is a 80 grain and I would need a 1:8 for it. Will the lighter bullets still be very accurate at the faster rate? Tight groups are a must.

 

[jelenko]

My experience and understanding is that, basically, accuracy won't be affected.
But, because the lighter bullets will tend to have a significantly higher muzzle velocity, the resulting higher spin rate will increase the chance that they will come apart - especially as the bore gets rougher.

FYI. Bullet spin rate = [Muzzle velocity X 720]/Twist rate

 

[SSL]

For what it's worth, I have just started working with my new Ruger American Predator .223 with a 1-8" twist. Limited shooting at this point has indicated that it really likes 50-grain VMax and 52-grain Hornady HPBTs. Pushed around 3,200 - 3,300 fps, both have produced several just over quarter inch groups at 100-yards with no specific load development at this point. No sign of tipping so far and playing with loads may tighten these results a bit. Still pretty good for a production rufle. I haven't had the opportunity to test at longer range due to wind that just never seems to stop around here.

 

[Twicepop]

You'll need the 1:8 for the 80 grain bullets, but some of the lighter, thinner jacketed varmit bullets might not make it to their intended objective without disintegrating because of rotational forces. If you opt for a slightly lighter bullet, say in the 69-70 grain range a 1:9-1:10 might be the ticket. Most bullet manufacturers have recommended twist rates and trajectory charts for their bullets. Some even list rotational speed for these bullets at the velocities they'll be shot at.

 

[jelenko]

Note: 3300 fps in an 8 twist barrel is 297,000 rpm on the bullet.
The max recommended by Hornady for their 75 grain HPBT is 280,000; the max recommended for Sierra for their 77 gr HPBT is 260,000.
I've shot nice groups with both bullets over the recommended max, but also have had some bullet not make it to the target.

Here's data from someone else https://www.shootersforum.com/threads/f-y-i-varmint-bullet-rpm-limits.78073/

 

[Oso]

Decide whether you are making a plinker, varmint, or precision long-range rifle. If it is a varmint then slower twist for lighter (40-50gr bullets), all-around plinker (50-60gr bullets), and long-range (70-80gr bullets). It has been my experience then custom rifles get purpose built. You are going to do load development and once you find the magic combination then that will be the only cartridge that you end up loading for that rifle. I have several 223's that are geared toward different purposes based on bullet type/weight and distance. It you are looking for a jack-of-all-trades then 1:9 twist, but you give up the light 40gr class for dedicated varmint bullets...but can still load the 53gr-55gr Vmax. If looking for precision long-range then 1:8 twist regardless of distance. Going to a faster twist rate to shoot the 90gr bullets doesn't make as much sense out of a 223 (need more velocity so better for 22BR, 22 Grendel, etc).

If you aren't certain then ask yourself what optic ($$ and magnification) you are going to put on rifle, which should help determine the practical limitation of type of shooting that you can do at +300 yards. If you plan to shoot steel plates then less magnification needed, but if you are going to long range precision then more magnification to see the little holes making small groups.

Varmint 1:14 (40gr - 53gr) or 1:12 (40gr - low 60gr)
Plinker 1:9 (reliably shoots up to 69gr SMK, and maybe some mid-70gr bullets but will need to test)
Precision 1:8 (55gr - 85gr bullets)

Varmint...

 

[chutem]

Build the 8 twist and just kill varmints with the heavies. You mentioned varmints out to 400-500...perfect.

 

[Gater]

I working up a build for a 223 Remington bolt action for mainly target work and maybe varmint use out to 400-500 yards or closer. This will be for the wife and she is not afraid of a heavy rifle. Thinking of using a Bighorn Origin action with a 26” Shilen or Criterion barrel. Main question is twist. For 52-53 grain I know they wii work with a slower twist (14), but the max weight bullet I’m thinking of using is a 80 grain and I would need a 1:8 for it. Will the lighter bullets still be very accurate at the faster rate? Tight groups are a must.

I have been loading and shooting.223 for 35 years the best barrel I have had by far is a Bartline 1-7.7 twist I ordered another except the new is just 1-7

 

[K22]

If I was anticipating shooting at those distances at a varmint, I would opt for a 22 250, 220 Swift or 243 Win.

I know, someone is going to post that they routinely hit varmints at 500 yards with a 223 and I imagine that its possible if you have a scope that can reliability and repeatedly dial up distance changes and you can read wind and mirage accurately.

Hunting is different that target shooting where in the case of the latter, the ranges are set and the target profile is consistent. This not the case in hunting - its variable. We owe to the animal to make a humane and ethical shot. Hitting a varmint at 500 yards with a 223 Rem requires more than average skill.

Thus, to maximum success, I would select a cartridge designed for long range varmint hunting if that is my prime use. This is a case where one size may not fit all applications, i.e. target shooting vs hunting.

 

[22vartarg]

If I was anticipating shooting at those distances at a varmint, I would opt for a 22 250, 220 Swift or 243 Win.

I know, someone is going to post that they routinely hit varmints at 500 yards with a 223 and I imagine that its possible if you have a scope that can reliability and repeatedly dial up distance changes and you can read wind and mirage accurately.

Hunting is different that target shooting where in the case of the latter, the ranges are set and the target profile is consistent. This not the case in hunting - its variable. We owe to the animal to make a humane and ethical shot. Hitting a varmint at 500 yards with a 223 Rem requires more than average skill.

Thus, to maximum success, I would select a cartridge designed for long range varmint hunting if that is my prime use. This is a case where one size may not fit all applications, i.e. target shooting vs hunting.

What is the maximum you would go with 223 Remington and say a groundhog?

 

[K9TXS]

I shoot the 7.7 twist in my specialty pistol. If the wind isn't blowing too bad, the 60gr Vmax is great. As the wind picks up, I go to the 68 gr Hornady tip bullet or the Sierra 69 gr tipped bullet. When the wind is really blowing, I go with the 77 gr tipped Sierra bullet. I could use the 77 Sierra as an all around bullet, but shooting the 60 gr and 68 gr Hornady, it really keeps the cost down.

 

[K22]

What is the maximum you would go with 223 Remington and say a groundhog?

I don't know that there is an absolute answer to this because it depends on the shooting aid used in the field, the quality of the scope to make precise range adjustments, and of course the skill of the guy behind the rifle.

I use shooting cross sticks which enable me to move about easily and the farms where I hunt , rarely do I get a safe shot opportunity beyond 300 yards and most are under 275 yards. Also, while I have quality scopes, they do not possess reliable dial up capability thus I have to use hold over on shots beyond 225 yards for my site in. Therefore, these conditions limit the range I shoot.

With my most precise varmint rifles, I'm confident out to about 275 yards using the 223 off a shooting stick. When I shot the 22 250 years ago, I took a number of hogs in the 300 yard range. After I shot out the barrel I didn't replace it because the 223 Rem handles the vast majority of my shots. With my last hog taken I'm at 1,899 confirmed kills since 2000. Been laid up with a bad knee this spring so I haven't been out much yet this year.

I have two friends that are long range specialists ground hog hunters. Both use custom barrelled 22 250's and shoot off a portable field bench and have the elite rifle scopes with reliable dial up capability. They routinely take hogs out to 500 yards but that style of hunting would drive me nuts, sitting in one spot for "X" number of hours. They also travel north of the area where long range shots are readily available - not so much where I hunt here in eastern PA.

There is one other issue to ponder. While all my 223's that I hunt varmints with have 12" twist and I use highly fragile bullets, i.e. 50 - 55 grains designed for varmint hunting, I wonder if the heavies used in the fast twist 223 Rem might be subject to ricochet. Also, do they possess enough terminal performance at long ranges to deliver a humane kill? Large mature ground hogs can be tough animals to anchor.

 

[jpx2rk]

I've shot a pdog at 520 yds (measured) with a 223, 55gr Nosler tipped varmageddon just punched a hole clean thru the critter. No flop, hop or flying. Just fell over dead. Rifle has a 9twist.

 

[457ciSBC]

I've shot a pdog at 520 yds (measured) with a 223, 55gr Nosler tipped varmageddon just punched a hole clean thru the critter. No flop, hop or flying. Just fell over dead. Rifle has a 9twist.

P dogs are not robust as groundhogs though.

I don't know that there is an absolute answer to this because it depends on the shooting aid used in the field, the quality of the scope to make precise range adjustments, and of course the skill of the guy behind the rifle.

I use shooting cross sticks which enable me to move about easily and the farms where I hunt , rarely do I get a safe shot opportunity beyond 300 yards and most are under 275 yards. Also, while I have quality scopes, they do not possess reliable dial up capability thus I have to use hold over on shots beyond 225 yards for my site in. Therefore, these conditions limit the range I shoot.

With my most precise varmint rifles, I'm confident out to about 275 yards using the 223 off a shooting stick. When I shot the 22 250 years ago, I took a number of hogs in the 300 yard range. After I shot out the barrel I didn't replace it because the 223 Rem handles the vast majority of my shots. With my last hog taken I'm at 1,899 confirmed kills since 2000. Been laid up with a bad knee this spring so I haven't been out much yet this year.

I have two friends that are long range specialists ground hog hunters. Both use custom barrelled 22 250's and shoot off a portable field bench and have the elite rifle scopes with reliable dial up capability. They routinely take hogs out to 500 yards but that style of hunting would drive me nuts, sitting in one spot for "X" number of hours. They also travel north of the area where long range shots are readily available - not so much where I hunt here in eastern PA.

There is one other issue to ponder. While all my 223's that I hunt varmints with have 12" twist and I use highly fragile bullets, i.e. 50 - 55 grains designed for varmint hunting, I wonder if the heavies used in the fast twist 223 Rem might be subject to ricochet. Also, do they possess enough terminal performance at long ranges to deliver a humane kill? Large mature ground hogs can be tough animals to anchor.

K22,I‘m with you here.The largest bean field one that I have killed was just over 16 pounds and that old rascal looked like young bear!

 

[jpx2rk]

P dogs are not robust as groundhogs though.

K22,I‘m with you here.The largest bean field one that I have killed was just over 16 pounds and that old rascal looked like young bear!

My comment was directed more towards the OP and the distance he mentioned (400-500) for varmints. I'm aware that GH's are more "robust" than a pdog.

 

[22vartarg]

I want to thank everyone for there thoughts and suggestion… thinking now we will limit this one just for paper use only and use the 22-250 for the longer shots.

 

[wkdickinson]

I have an AR Match Rifle with a Krieger 1:7.7" barrel. It shoots 62gr to 80gr SMK bullets great. But when I have tried shooting 50gr VMAX bullet out of it, only about 40% of them make it to the target, the rest go "poof" about 50 yds. downrange.

 

[22vartarg]

Looks like it will be a 26” Shilen barrel, varmint contour and with a 1:8 twist.

 

[searcher]

I built a "do it all" home defense A/R, using a heavy, 20" Criterion chrome-lined tube, with the idea it could shoot the heavies - and do double duty shooting coyotes and such. I have built a lot of "true" varmint rigs with 24" to 26" heavy tubes with slower twist - and I wasn't expecting really good accuracy shooting the lighter bullets out of a chrome-lined bore. Wow - I was wrong. Using Lake City brass, various primers, CFE223, Varget, IMR 8208 XBR and TAC - combined with 50 Varmint Grenades and 50 V-Max, no problem getting 5-shot groups under 1/2" MOA with either bullet. That said - using those bullets out to over 400 yards is pushing the envelope - and the heavier bullets run better - but they don't open up as the varmint bullets do. So you still have trade-offs. All said though- that 1-8" will definitely be capable of shooting those lighter bullets. I'd not go under 50 grains though, as you will have to load most of them down to remain intact - and at 400 to 500 - not much wallop will remain.

 

[Indiana6547]

I working up a build for a 223 Remington bolt action for mainly target work and maybe varmint use out to 400-500 yards or closer. This will be for the wife and she is not afraid of a heavy rifle. Thinking of using a Bighorn Origin action with a 26” Shilen or Criterion barrel. Main question is twist. For 52-53 grain I know they wii work with a slower twist (14), but the max weight bullet I’m thinking of using is a 80 grain and I would need a 1:8 for it. Will the lighter bullets still be very accurate at the faster rate? Tight groups are a must.

I run a 1:7" Criterion MTU contour 28" barrel and my go to bullet is an 80 gr. Berger VLD. Very, very accurate and I would do it again. I have no need to run lighter bullets.