Rebarreling to 6 PPC

[South Pender]

I have a .243 Win. rifle with the standard .308 head size bolt face that I'm considering rebarreling to 6 PPC. I realize the bolt face is not right (.473" rim diameter) for the smaller PPC case (.445" rim diameter), but am wondering just how important this might be. Modification of the bolt face would present problems, I imagine, with the extractor and ejector. Is there too much slop in the larger bolt face for the smaller 6 PPC to work, leaving it as is?

I realize I could go to 6 BR instead of 6 PPC, but wanted the PPC for its slightly-better short-range accuracy potential. If I don't go to the 6 PPC, is there anything out there with .473" rim diameter in 6 mm. (or even .224 for that matter) that rivals the PPC for short-range (100-200 yds.) accuracy?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[LHSmith]

What brand of rifle? IMHO just go with a 14 twist 6 BR and push 66-68 gr. custom bullets at the same velocity as the PPC.

 

[South Pender]

What brand of rifle? IMHO just go with a 14 twist 6 BR and push 66-68 gr. custom bullets at the same velocity as the PPC.

But this would probably result in a less-than-full case 6BR, wouldn't it? And isn't that detrimental to accuracy? Could this be fixed by going to a slower-than-normal powder?

 

[Tim Singleton]

Depending on the action, stock,rest, wind flags
You may not be able to see a difference between a PPC or a 6br

Let us know a little more about the rifle and the intended use

 

[joshb]

Hi. I shot a 6br for a good while before I bought a 6ppc and shot that. Both shot very well. I shot some better groups with the ppc but the gun itself was a "full race" Benchrest rifle. Borden action, Leonard stock.... so I expected that. I 'm learning that my shooting techniques, reloading practices and wind reading skills are more of factor than the cartridge I'm shooting. Just some thoughts. The 6br can be very accurate.

 

[WyleWD]

If I don't go to the 6 PPC, is there anything out there with .473" rim diameter in 6 mm. (or even .224 for that matter) that rivals the PPC for short-range (100-200 yds.) accuracy?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Agree with LHSmith's post #2 above. And you could check out a 6 Grendel or 6 Grinch. I've seen a couple each of those that are pretty darn impressive.

An in your post above (#3), it probably would result in a less than full case. But certainly doesn't seem to affect the accuracy with the right powder and tuning in a 12-14 twist 6br.WD

 

[jimmymac]

Depending on the action, you may be okay with the .308 bolt face. Check with a smith to be sure.

I inquired about this not long ago because I have a Panda with a dedicated PPC bolt face. I wanted to have it opened up to pull BR cases so I could run a switch barrel setup. I called Kelbly's to see if this was feasible and they told me when they perform the modification it would pull PPC and BR cases with no problems.

Borden B actions with a .308 bolt face will also pull PPC in addition to BR cases. I was in the market for one not long ago so I asked @Greg Taylor about this and he confirmed it would work with both cases.

 

[South Pender]

Thanks for the insights, guys. It's a Wichita .243, sporter configuration (12 twist), and I'm not interested in trying to make it competitive with BR rifles, just more accurate than it is at the moment. The best I've been able to do with it has been an average 5-shot group aggregate of .50"-.60" at 100 yds., with IMR 4350, 80-gr. Watson FB bullets seated just into the lands, Lapua brass, and Fed. 210M primers. I'd like to shrink the groups if possible.

 

[Tim Singleton]

Thanks for the insights, guys. It's a Wichita .243, sporter configuration (12 twist), and I'm not interested in trying to make it competitive with BR rifles, just more accurate than it is at the moment. The best I've been able to do with it has been an average 5-shot group aggregate of .50"-.60" at 100 yds., with IMR 4350, 80-gr. Watson FB bullets seated just into the lands, Lapua brass, and Fed. 210M primers. I'd like to shrink the groups if possible.

Go with a 6br you want be disappointed

 

[Greyfox]

Looks like you're received some pretty good advice. For most folks the 6BR would give similar accuracy with minimal costs. As you've been advised it wouldn't be terribly expensive to make your bolt pull PPC cases, so that's also an option. Of course, that will mean a new barrel, dies, etc and we're talking somewhere in the neighborhood of $600 for that. There is another option that hasn't been mentioned as it's not very well known and will require some research. As I recall, in the late 90's 220 Russian brass became scarce. An alternative was developed with similar case/bullet ratios. It is called the 6 Talldog. This case is made from a 6 BR shortened about .100, depending on the variation. I have competed with this chambering and found it to be in the accuracy neighborhood of the 6 PPC. You probably don't care to go to this much effort, but if you do, dies and reamers can be found with some searching. Just thought I'd mention it.

Rick

 

[retired]

but you need to buy a QUALITY bbl to start with.

Go with a 6br you want be disappointed

 

[madmixerman]

But this would probably result in a less-than-full case 6BR, wouldn't it? And isn't that detrimental to accuracy? Could this be fixed by going to a slower-than-normal powder?

Use VV135 with the 65-68 gr. bullets and you will have a pretty full case.

 

[GSPV]

Go with a 6 BR. Get the right barrel twist and chamber dimensions for what you want to do. You’ll be very happy.

I have shot a lot of great scores in local and regional varmint matches with a 10 twist 6 BR shooting the 90 grain Berger boat tail target bullet pushed with 30-ish grains of Varget. The reamer used had about 85 thou of freebore.

If I stay in the 6mm game, I have a 6 BRDX reamer with .104 freebore that I’ll use with a 10 twist to shoot the BiB 95 grain flat base.

Greg J

 

[South Pender]

Sounds as if the 6 BR is probably the best compromise. However, the 6 Talldog that Greyfox mentioned sounds just about ideal--.473" rim diameter and 6 PPC capacity--if it weren't for its rarity. I'd be concerned about the availability of reamers, dies, etc.

 

[jimmymac]

FWIW, Kelbly was going to charge me $60 to open up the bolt face on my Panda.

 

[jimmymac]

...however, if it were me in your situation I'd just turn it into a 6BR and call it a day since all you are doing is trying to improve upon your current results. A good barrel and chamber job should do the trick. Good luck.

 

[South Pender]

Taking this a little off-topic, I might mention that one thing that had occurred to me in connection with getting my .243W to shoot better was to get some of the Lapua .308 Win. Palma Brass with the small rifle primer pockets (readily available up here) and neck it down to .243. Does this seem likely to improve accuracy in the .243? Would the small rifle primers be strong enough to adequately ignite 45-50 grains of powder in .243 loads?

 

[jimmymac]

The 1/2" groups you are shooting are pretty darn good IMO. If you aren't shooting with flags, you may want to give that a go. You should be able to shrink those groups down shooting repeatable conditions. Out of curiosity, have you tried any 68 grain bullets with that 12 twist? Might be worth a shot.

 

[DOGCAPPER]

If you go with ppc, a claw extractor will be a necessary addition . If you are using a factory bolt vs custom the firing pin will need turning and the bolt face re done to better pin/hole tolerance
regardless of cal. when this work is done have the ejector removed and hole plugged.
The 6 br with mods to the bolt is the most viable configuration for your apparent use at this point.
Forget about the 243 use in short range benchrest.
Barrel needs to be 13.5 to 14 twist. Use 66 to 68 grain bullet..custom.
Powder H 322...Benchmark... LT32 ect in this burn range.
Lapua brass small primer hole...Federal gm205m primer or Rem 71/2 nothing else.
Have the chamber reamer used for no turn neck at this time unless you already have neck turning tools.

 

[LHSmith]

If you go with ppc, a claw extractor will be a necessary addition . If you are using a factory bolt vs custom the firing pin will need turning and the bolt face re done to better pin/hole tolerance
regardless of cal. when this work is done have the ejector removed and hole plugged.
The 6 br with mods to the bolt is the most viable configuration for your apparent use at this point.
Forget about the 243 use in short range benchrest.
Barrel needs to be 13.5 to 14 twist. Use 66 to 68 grain bullet..custom.
Powder H 322...Benchmark... LT32 ect in this burn range.
Lapua brass small primer hole...Federal gm205m primer or Rem 71/2 nothing else.
Have the chamber reamer used for no turn neck at this time unless you already have neck turning tools.

^^^^^ Great advice. Besides you need to save as much money as possible in order to buy a scope that is capable of holding zero.......or else it will all be for naught.