Rear Bag Features -- How to Reduce Vertical

[BoydAllen]

One of the most important things to know on this subject is that all rifles are not the same, so you need to do your own testing. Take some sand and your bag filling tools to the range and find out what your rifle likes, and stop trying to substitute the internet for actual testing. Personally, I do not like either bag to be rock hard. While these can be good for tracking, there is no tracking trophy. As far as the Houston Warehouse article goes to my knowledge no one has ever come along and said that he did what the article described and won a match. Quite to the contrary Speedy went to the warehouse, retuned there, tried that at a match and after experiencing the results, switched back to what he had been doing. A bag can be full, but not rock hard. For me there is a difference in the results. My rifles like some damping from their supports, but I can only speak for my rifles.

 

[Michael Huebner]

Will a hard rear bag cause vertical?

No

 

[Michael Huebner]

Will a hard rear bag cause vertical?

A bag not packed properly can (not quite enough sand)

 

[Kyle Schultz]

Will a hard rear bag cause vertical?

There's lots of voodoo in benchrest shooting and a lot of it deals with the bags. Hard versus soft. Ride the bag or the ears. Short ears or tall ears. Leather, Cordura, or, 3M ear material. And so on and so on. I've worried about it all and pursued lots of "solutions". Still do.

Just this morning while reading this thread a thought flashes through my mind... What's the most precise platform we use when shooting groups? A railgun.

What does that suggest to you?

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

There's lots of voodoo in benchrest shooting and a lot of it deals with the bags. Hard versus soft. Ride the bag or the ears. Short ears or tall ears. Leather, Cordura, or, 3M ear material. And so on and so on. I've worried about it all and pursued lots of "solutions". Still do.

Just this morning while reading this thread a thought flashes through my mind... What's the most precise platform we use when shooting groups? A railgun.

What does that suggest to you?

Ooh ooh let me try….
I will guess properly adjusted it recoils the same way every time and returns to the same spot every time?
Did I win?
G

 

[jackieschmidt]

With soft or hard ears?

It’s an old Bald Eagle. Everything is hard.

I have two “modern” rear bags, both Gators. I shoot better with the old Bald Eagle.

I know, it looks terrible.

 

[K22]

Protektor Doctor with Cardura bunny ears and heavy sand. Super hard all over.

I understand, I just said I never saw the rear rest be a contributor to vertical. Perhaps it can, just never narrowed down vertical to it.

Also, as I said, I am not an experienced bench shooter. I just shared what I've seen at the range helping other shooters.

 

[Old Navy]

I got out to my range this morning to try out some of the things that you guys suggested. First off I really pounded the stock down in the rear bag. That helped the tracking a ton. I tried to tighten the side grippers on the front rest. It is a Shadetree with the angled tensioners. Could not squeeze the bag tight like Bart suggested. I modified them when I got home. Should be better next time out. All I had for ammo was some test loads that were the last of my 100 rounds of prepped cases. I still managed to shoot several good groups that were mostly triangles. My last two were almost perfect triangles with the top hole showing some vertical. I think I am on the right track. Thanks for all the suggestions. Oh! Front bag is hard.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I got out to my range this morning to try out some of the things that you guys suggested. First off I really pounded the stock down in the rear bag. That helped the tracking a ton. I tried to tighten the side grippers on the front rest. It is a Shadetree with the angled tensioners. Could not squeeze the bag tight like Bart suggested. I modified them when I got home. Should be better next time out. All I had for ammo was some test loads that were the last of my 100 rounds of prepped cases. I still managed to shoot several good groups that were mostly triangles. My last two were almost perfect triangles with the top hole showing some vertical. I think I am on the right track. Thanks for all the suggestions. Oh! Front bag is hard.

There's loose, just right and there's too tight in regard to the front rest, imo. I want the gun to be snug in there but not enough to hinder it breaking free easily. What works now, might be too tight when it's hot and humid too. Sounds like you're on the right track. Good! I've seen some guns get nasty when held too tight in the front rest, specifically with a tall eared front bag. If you think about it, it makes sense. That energy is GONNA come out somewhere. Holding it too tight is gonna make it react accordingly. IOW, don't fight it too much and let it slide freely but controlled.

 

[Shooter13]

And I know which one I will listen to!

Me too!

 

[BoydAllen]

There's lots of voodoo in benchrest shooting and a lot of it deals with the bags. Hard versus soft. Ride the bag or the ears. Short ears or tall ears. Leather, Cordura, or, 3M ear material. And so on and so on. I've worried about it all and pursued lots of "solutions". Still do.

Just this morning while reading this thread a thought flashes through my mind... What's the most precise platform we use when shooting groups? A railgun.

What does that suggest to you?

It suggests that you may not have done actual testing of hard vs soft bags with a 10.5# PPC. I have.

 

[spike-55]

It’s an old Bald Eagle. Everything is hard.

I have two “modern” rear bags, both GatorsView attachment 1516810. I shoot better with the old Bald Eagle.

I know, it looks terrible.

Nah Jackie - the epoxy seams give it character, kinda like those Patina paint jobs LOL!!!!!!
The paper tells the story, and your's is worth reading!!!!!
stan

 

[JFrank]

With soft or hard ears?

Soft ears ..

 

[jackieschmidt]

Nah Jackie - the epoxy seams give it character, kinda like those Patina paint jobs LOL!!!!!!
The paper tells the story, and your's is worth reading!!!!!
stan

I’m kinda pragmatic about the whole thing.

If you have a good barrel, a good lot of bullets, and a great tune, none of this other stuff amounts to much of anything.

 

[Old Navy]

There's loose, just right and there's too tight in regard to the front rest, imo. I want the gun to be snug in there but not enough to hinder it breaking free easily. What works now, might be too tight when it's hot and humid too. Sounds like you're on the right track. Good! I've seen some guns get nasty when held too tight in the front rest, specifically with a tall eared front bag. If you think about it, it makes sense. That energy is GONNA come out somewhere. Holding it too tight is gonna make it react accordingly. IOW, don't fight it too much and let it slide freely but controlled.

It was loose with the clamps all the way in. I installed some spacers that will work from snug to very tight. Going out again in the morning with my proven loads.

 

[jimmymac]

It suggests that you may not have done actual testing of hard vs soft bags with a 10.5# PPC. I have.

No disrespect intended, but Kyle has shot a lot of benchrest. I highly doubt he would have come to his opinion by accident.

I like a hard rear bag with as much heavy sand in it as possible that sits on top of a donut filled with regular sand. I like the ears filled with regular sand but not heavily packed in there. I didn’t come to this by accident.

My thinking is that what works good for you and how you shoot may not work for me. All you have to do is look up and down the line and pay attention to the top shooters rear bag setups to recognize that everyone has a preference.

 

[Jefferson]

There's loose, just right and there's too tight in regard to the front rest, imo. I want the gun to be snug in there but not enough to hinder it breaking free easily. What works now, might be too tight when it's hot and humid too. Sounds like you're on the right track. Good! I've seen some guns get nasty when held too tight in the front rest, specifically with a tall eared front bag. If you think about it, it makes sense. That energy is GONNA come out somewhere. Holding it too tight is gonna make it react accordingly. IOW, don't fight it too much and let it slide freely but controlled.

in other words the

BREAKAWAY FRICTION coefficient should be zero

the rearward action of the rifle should be the same from shot to shot

 

[Jefferson]

There's loose, just right and there's too tight in regard to the front rest, imo. I want the gun to be snug in there but not enough to hinder it breaking free easily. What works now, might be too tight when it's hot and humid too. Sounds like you're on the right track. Good! I've seen some guns get nasty when held too tight in the front rest, specifically with a tall eared front bag. If you think about it, it makes sense. That energy is GONNA come out somewhere. Holding it too tight is gonna make it react accordingly. IOW, don't fight it too much and let it slide freely but controlled.

‘you statement is also why the short range benchrest stock we designed works so well with the high sides

JTR-BR


it had nowhere to go but straight back

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

‘you statement is also why the short range benchrest stock we designed works so well with the high sides

JTR-BR


it had nowhere to go but straight back

Nice stocks, too. I've worked with them but never owned one of them, yet. It'd be high on my list. Are they still available. Thought Kelbly's owned the design or something along those lines. Figured it went away when they stopped making stocks.

 

[Gabe22BR]